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russian armor

coh2 anomaly

16 Feb 2022, 18:38 PM
#1
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1

the su-76 and the zis-3 share the same barrage ability, for the same munitions cost, but the zis-3 will have a ~25 second (vet 0) cooldown as the barrage ends, before it fires again. and the SU-76M will, after finishing it's own barrage, have a 75 SECOND cooldown before it can fire again.


ignoring the "Akhully, the su-76m fires a bit faster and..." argument, why does the su-76 have such harsh cooldown restrictions when the very same ability on the more available zis-3 exists?


you wont go for more than one su-76 anyway, if any, but you likely will go for two zis guns on the field. If there is a patch, why shouldn't the su-76 get a matching cooldown with the stationary at gun? you can already play USF so this change would be more a QoL than a balance one


please do not consider this as a buffing a weak unit thread, but rather as a hotfixing an artificially nerfed ability to match other units
16 Feb 2022, 18:54 PM
#2
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 764

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2022, 18:38 PMKatukov
the su-76 and the zis-3 share the same barrage ability, for the same munitions cost, but the zis-3 will have a ~25 second (vet 0) cooldown as the barrage ends, before it fires again. and the SU-76M will, after finishing it's own barrage, have a 75 SECOND cooldown before it can fire again.


ignoring the "Akhully, the su-76m fires a bit faster and..." argument, why does the su-76 have such harsh cooldown restrictions when the very same ability on the more available zis-3 exists?


you wont go for more than one su-76 anyway, if any, but you likely will go for two zis guns on the field. If there is a patch, why shouldn't the su-76 get a matching cooldown with the stationary at gun? you can already play USF so this change would be more a QoL than a balance one


Well, you see, the longer cooldown is to offset the fact that the SU-76 has a free barr- oh wait...
16 Feb 2022, 19:02 PM
#3
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13272 | Subs: 1

Yes, zis barrage CD is to sort and needs an increase.

Then it could get a CD bonus at vet 2 same as SU-76.
16 Feb 2022, 23:32 PM
#6
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1602 | Subs: 3

It has longer recharge, but it's worth noting the SU-76 barrage has more range and faster reload and that unlike the zis, veterancy bonuses apply to the barrage, meaning it gets better damage than zis barrage on top of further improved reload eventually.

Actually even SU-76 reload bulletins work for it, but it's questionable to equip those.
17 Feb 2022, 02:42 AM
#7
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471



Well, you see, the longer cooldown is to offset the fact that the SU-76 has a free barr- oh wait...


LOL. Exactly my first thought.

Let's just face it. Lelic forgot to buff CD when they added cost to the skill.

Any other justification(X does Y more) doesn't really compensate CD difference.
18 Feb 2022, 15:38 PM
#8
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

Oh yeah, another SOV is UP thread.

On previous episode we agreed to make Maxim 240mp.

Now we agree to give SU free barrages. I also say give SOV the T14 Armatas along with free loiter planes.
18 Feb 2022, 16:16 PM
#9
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1

Oh yeah, another SOV is UP thread.

On previous episode we agreed to make Maxim 240mp.

Now we agree to give SU free barrages. I also say give SOV the T14 Armatas along with free loiter planes.


no?
i simply asked why the same bloody barrage ability takes 3 times more on one unit than the other
18 Feb 2022, 18:02 PM
#10
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1849 | Subs: 1

Wait... People use the SU-76?

For real though 75 seconds seems pretty long for something that isn't free anymore and it's not exactly super strong unless it's one of those things that is stealth good but nobody knows because it's buried on a unit that hasn't been buffed out of irrelevancy yet.
18 Feb 2022, 20:11 PM
#11
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1

Wait... People use the SU-76?

For real though 75 seconds seems pretty long for something that isn't free anymore and it's not exactly super strong unless it's one of those things that is stealth good but nobody knows because it's buried on a unit that hasn't been buffed out of irrelevancy yet.


the prime focus on the thread is not the unit itself, but the barrage

while its TECHNICALLY a "superior" barrage, the zis-3 can fire shells out almost constantly, and three barrages certainly are better than one identical one.

the stealth doesn't even give an ambush bonus, so that's a waste
18 Feb 2022, 22:25 PM
#12
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13272 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Feb 2022, 20:11 PMKatukov


the prime focus on the thread is not the unit itself, but the barrage

while its TECHNICALLY a "superior" barrage, the zis-3 can fire shells out almost constantly, and three barrages certainly are better than one identical one.

the stealth doesn't even give an ambush bonus, so that's a waste


SU-76

The SU-76 has receieved a large number of changes to improve its performance. The firing cone has been increased, allowing SU-76s to be able to track targets more effectively and the unit will now rotate faster at lower veterancy levels. General mobility at veterancy has also been improved for acceleration boosts. The veteran ability has also been replaced with Camouflage, allowing the SU-76 to remain hidden until targets come into range.

Firing cone from 2 to 5
Camouflage delay from 5 to 2
Camouflage rotation penalty from 75% to 50%
Rotation rate from 32 to 34
Veterancy 1 Tracking replaced with SU-76 Tank Hunter Camouflage; +20% accuracy and +20% penetration on the first shot from camouflage.
Veterancy requirements from 870/1740/3480 to 1044/2088/4166
Veterancy 2 now provides +20% acceleration and deceleration
Veterancy 3 rotation bonus from 1.25 to 1.175
Can no longer crush infantry
18 Feb 2022, 23:16 PM
#13
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1483

I've seen people use SU76 in 3v3s for that dual barrage/AT role. They even managed to get them to vet 2/3 with 0 kills. Funny thing was, once KT got on the field on winekkendonk, I saw them bounce 10-12 shots in a row altogether (3 su76s). I mean, they fired really quickly. All 3 of them were like an automatic rifle. Pew pew pew. Still, once heavy duty came, they were useless. Literally the tactic that completely killed soviet at that point was:

KT + ober blob + 2x raketen A-move and soviet got pushed to the base.
Su76 bounced 24/7 on KT, obers melted and raketen kept the soviet player investing micro to not get the vet3 su76 killed. If he had gone for a katyusha and an SU85 and just use ZiS for early-mid AT, we'd steamroll them.

I think that SU76 is beyond useless ATM. On paper it "looks" good. Having a high ROF, but having no turret and being squishy, you really need to be careful with it. Not to mention it needs more shots to kill. All that with low penetration values (40% chance of KT pen), means that they don't scale well once heavy duty vehicles roll out. The barrage is mediocre on it. Not great, not terrible.
On paper you'd think that having a high ROF would compensate for the lower penetration values... you are bound to penetrate sometime... truth it, the first couple of shots matter because those are the ones that come as a surprise. Once raketen set up to defend... nope.

I'd hate to see it be made broken OP if barrage is mega buffed, but the unit could use a vet3 damage or penetration buff. That or a small barrage buff.
However, I highly doubt any new patches will come through.
23 Feb 2022, 17:18 PM
#14
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 253

ZiS barrage too good. Should have 75 second timer like SU76.
23 Feb 2022, 17:23 PM
#15
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2022, 17:18 PMReverb
ZiS barrage too good. Should have 75 second timer like SU76.


First time I agree with you.
23 Feb 2022, 21:26 PM
#16
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2022, 17:18 PMReverb
ZiS barrage too good. Should have 75 second timer like SU76.


bait account moment
4 Mar 2022, 14:21 PM
#17
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1183

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2022, 21:26 PMKatukov


bait account moment


No he is right.

Zis is the only ATG that can also function as a mini mortar/cannon. I am not saying outright remove it but damn does it need a better cooldown.
4 Mar 2022, 15:20 PM
#18
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 761 | Subs: 1



No he is right.

Zis is the only ATG that can also function as a mini mortar/cannon. I am not saying outright remove it but damn does it need a better cooldown.



its a short cooldown because you sink 35 muni into each barrage


but the barrage must be problematic because it might kill a MG in 2 years and 35 to 70 muni
22 Jun 2022, 19:13 PM
#19
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 720

Well, at least my SU-76 fired 10 shots at a flammenwerfer. The flammenwerfer stood around for 6 rounds burning away infantry and then retreated comfortably while my SU-76 chased for 6 more rounds and lost once a raketen was in range. Oh my, if only I had a chance at 15 rounds at it, then the outcome would've been different!
22 Jun 2022, 22:54 PM
#20
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

its cooldown timer is so much because its better then mobile artillery barrages. this ability causes devastation to the enemy like not many other units. thats why the countdown is so high
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