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Why is the Maxim so bad?

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11 Feb 2022, 21:36 PM
#1
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 353

I'm sure its been explained somewhere before but I would like to know why the justification for Maxim being bad.

Same cost as MG42 but requires a tech building.

I am primary a team games player and I understand the balancing for Maxim is made around 1v1s. Am I correct in thinking that conscripts trading/value wise in 1v1s, the Maxim had to be toned down for it to be 'balanced'? If this is the case, unforunately conscripts are bad in team games which makes both Maxim and Cons being equally as bad in team games. A faction that has been ruined by the latest patches.

In team games, OST easy access to T1 Maxim, while Soviets have to build a T1 building for Maxim makes it so bad. Going Maxim first means you will always lose to MG42 first from Ost because they will have resource advantage and time advantage (because you teched to get Maxim). Not including that both have the same cost while Maxim has a smaller arc and can't suppress in one burst like the MG42 can. One is clearly better than the other and I don't see how the supporting units make up for this loss in power.

I know we're not getting any more patches but I feel like balance team really dropped the ball on this one. Soviets have really bad early game compared to OST and OKW. I remember Maxim costing 240mp before and having a faster setup time instead of what we have now.
11 Feb 2022, 22:49 PM
#2
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 200

11 Feb 2022, 23:31 PM
#3
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 902

tldr; it's not
12 Feb 2022, 00:31 AM
#4
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 243 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Feb 2022, 22:49 PMReverb
its good


It doesn't pin, it doesn't kill, it doesn't set up fast, it does not have a large cone, it is not cheap and it has no high durability, it hasn't got a good ability. Yea, the Maxim is totally worth it lololol
12 Feb 2022, 02:05 AM
#5
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 671 | Subs: 1

the maxim is as bad in 1v1s as it is in team mode

it is not entirely trash, but it is widely considered, by everyone, the worst MG in the game


it was meta once back in 2013 or 2014 and then they removed the qualities of it so people don't actively spam it (just like they spam the MG-42), and then they never compensated it via cost reduction or performance boosts, hence its not considered good.
12 Feb 2022, 02:49 AM
#6
avatar of Reverb

Posts: 200

12 Feb 2022, 08:22 AM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13091 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2022, 02:05 AMKatukov
the maxim is as bad in 1v1s as it is in team mode

it is not entirely trash, but it is widely considered, by everyone, the worst MG in the game


it was meta once back in 2013 or 2014 and then they removed the qualities of it so people don't actively spam it (just like they spam the MG-42), and then they never compensated it via cost reduction or performance boosts, hence its not considered good.

The maxim spam was viable especially vs OKW, people would building 5+ of them, MG-42 spam is not really viable and never really was.

So no maxim spam is nothing like "mg-42 spam"...
12 Feb 2022, 08:25 AM
#8
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1237

Just make it 240 mp again or increase the cost of the mg42 to its actual preformance level. If grens costed as much as sections and rifles would be equally redicolous.

The difference in preformance should be visable in the price.
12 Feb 2022, 11:19 AM
#9
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 902

The Maxim is the tool the Soviets have on locking down a sector and/or using as a force multiplier.

If you suck at using it, it's not the tool's fault.
12 Feb 2022, 12:10 PM
#10
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1237

The maxim isnent bad its just overpiced. Its the inadaquate tool for the job its supposed to do.
If its meant to do what all the other mg's can do with infirior stats the price should reflect that. Its nonesense that it costs 260mp wich is the same as the much better mg42 and 10mp more then the mg34 wich is also better.

A good example is the t34 wich is a good tank mostly because its priced according to its impact value wich is the lowest out of the mediums. This logic should apply for the maxim as well, not the maxim ptsd logic.
12 Feb 2022, 13:26 PM
#11
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 156

This logic should apply for the maxim as well, not the maxim ptsd logic.

Noo of course not, because back in 2014 when maxim spam was viable apparently building double mortars/leigs or teching Mechanized for stukas didn't exist so we can't allow the maxim to be better now, even though the MG42 costs the same at T0 and can efficiently be used in pairs lmfao
12 Feb 2022, 13:36 PM
#12
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 671 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2022, 08:22 AMVipper

The maxim spam was viable especially vs OKW, people would building 5+ of them, MG-42 spam is not really viable and never really was.

So no maxim spam is nothing like "mg-42 spam"...


and that must be why the MG-42 is widely considered the best MG in the game and a very common tactic is to blob two to three of them without even making more than one grenadier, or even none. It clearly is a bad machine gun that does not outperform every other standard MG, and is even fucking comparable to premium MGs


if you use the modern maxim like you use the mg-42 as wehr, you will lose the game in sub 5 minutes

give it a price reduction to 240 manpower and that is enough
12 Feb 2022, 13:37 PM
#13
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 671 | Subs: 1

The Maxim is the tool the Soviets have on locking down a sector and/or using as a force multiplier.

If you suck at using it, it's not the tool's fault.


axis mains on their way to intentionally charge into the maxim arc of fire so it doesn't get rightfully buffed:
12 Feb 2022, 13:41 PM
#14
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13091 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2022, 13:36 PMKatukov


and that must be why the MG-42 is widely considered the best MG in the game and a very common tactic is to blob two to three of them without even making more than one grenadier, or even none. It clearly is a bad machine gun that does not outperform every other standard MG, and is even fucking comparable to premium MGs


if you use the modern maxim like you use the mg-42 as wehr, you will lose the game in sub 5 minutes

give it a price reduction to 240 manpower and that is enough

It seem to me that you have not experience what "maxim spam" was...

Here is a random video with a 6(?) maxim build, you are welcomed to try a 6 mg42 build see how it goes for you and come back with results.

Once more "MG-42 spam" does not work, maxim spam used to work and the game is an better state now that it does not...
12 Feb 2022, 13:57 PM
#15
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 671 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2022, 13:41 PMVipper

It seem to me that you have not experience what "maxim spam" was...

Here is a random video with a 6(?) maxim build, you are welcomed to try a 6 mg42 build see how it goes for you and come back with results.

Once more "MG-42 spam" does not work, maxim spam used to work and the game is an better state now that it does not...


you would be surprised, considering you don't even play the game you are constantly talking about


make six maxims now and see your imminent success, seeing as both axis factions have a plethora of anti machine gun tools at their disposal
12 Feb 2022, 13:59 PM
#16
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 156

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2022, 13:41 PMVipper

It seem to me that you have not experience what "maxim spam" was...

Here is a random video with a 6(?) maxim build, you are welcomed to try a 6 mg42 build see how it goes for you and come back with results.

Once more "MG-42 spam" does not work, maxim spam used to work and the game is an better state now that it does not...


2xMG42 early game in 3v3 can easily lock down a sector and turn the game into a stomp for the Allies if they don't get indirect fast, bolstered by the fact that Pios have increased sight to spot for the MG.Maxim comes after the MG42, is present in a faction with overall weaker support weapons and weaker overall infantry.

Building 2xMG42 is very viable for securing yourself a fuel point early on and keeping yourself in the game.Building maxims early on almost always resulted in the afromentioned soviet using them getting pushed to their base.

When Maxim spam was prevalent and viable there was also a very fringe minority of people who actually were good at the game, a good leftover portion just charged headlong into Maxims and lost predictably
12 Feb 2022, 14:12 PM
#17
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13091 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2022, 13:57 PMKatukov


you would be surprised, considering you don't even play the game you are constantly talking about

I have not idea why you want to turn this into a personal vendetta.

For the record I am pretty sure I have more game as Soviet than you thou so pls stop spreading lies.

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2022, 13:57 PMKatukov

make six maxims now and see your imminent success, seeing as both axis factions have a plethora of anti machine gun tools at their disposal

You where not talking about now you where talking about:

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2022, 02:05 AMKatukov
...
it was meta once back in 2013 or 2014 and then they removed the qualities of it so people don't actively spam it (just like they spam the MG-42), and then they never compensated it via cost reduction or performance boosts, hence its not considered good.

and that claim is simply false.




2xMG42 early game in 3v3 can easily lock down a sector and turn the game into a stomp for the Allies if they don't get indirect fast, bolstered by the fact that Pios have increased sight to spot for the MG.Maxim comes after the MG42, is present in a faction with overall weaker support weapons and weaker overall infantry.

Building 2xMG42 is very viable for securing yourself a fuel point early on and keeping yourself in the game.Building maxims early on almost always resulted in the afromentioned soviet using them getting pushed to their base.

When Maxim spam was prevalent and viable there was also a very fringe minority of people who actually were good at the game, a good leftover portion just charged headlong into Maxims and lost predictably

Making 2 mg42 has nothing to do with "maxim spam" era...

I think we can all agree that removing maxim spam from the game was an overall improvement.
12 Feb 2022, 16:06 PM
#18
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1237

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2022, 14:12 PMVipper


I think we can all agree that removing maxim spam from the game was an overall improvement.


Yeah i agree there. Just if they also lowered the price when they nerfed/redisigned it. A slight fire cone increase to compensate all other nerfs/redesign isent cutting it.
12 Feb 2022, 20:51 PM
#19
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 608

Maxim is fine for the most part. The only thing it needs is a slight survival buff like -10% recieved accuracy while Suppressing Fire is active or via Veterancy to prevent death loop from happening mid to late game.

I am OK with the Maxim performance otherwise though the real injustice here is the DHSK. More expensive with higher initial cost as well as higher maintenance cost, doctrinal for a marginal improvement over the Maxim. It is only relevant or used due to non T2 openings (Penals/Cons) getting access to an MG.
13 Feb 2022, 00:14 AM
#20
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 671 | Subs: 1

Maxim is fine for the most part. The only thing it needs is a slight survival buff like -10% recieved accuracy while Suppressing Fire is active or via Veterancy to prevent death loop from happening mid to late game.

I am OK with the Maxim performance otherwise though the real injustice here is the DHSK. More expensive with higher initial cost as well as higher maintenance cost, doctrinal for a marginal improvement over the Maxim. It is only relevant or used due to non T2 openings (Penals/Cons) getting access to an MG.


the DSHK is considered a good machine gun by most people, although the firing arc is really restrictive

it could use a slightly larger firing arc
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