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Lefh 105

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6 Nov 2021, 13:01 PM
#1
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 219

Since OST and OKW only have the 1 option, the lefh105, compared to allies having 4 alternatives for long range bombardment.

I was hoping that OST and OKW could get a different ability on their lefh's, to compensate for lack of arty options.

for example: OST would have the airburst shell abilty, and the OKW could get an incendiary ability, or vice versa.

With counterbarrage removal, and USF major getting a non-doc recon plane combined with a teammate having offmap, 105 lefh's are more vulnerable than they have ever been, to the point of barely worth the effort in many/most cases.

though a good/balanced suggestion for a second ability for lefh, for one of the factions, escapes me, i was hoping for some input and thoughts
6 Nov 2021, 14:50 PM
#2
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 777 | Subs: 1

the LEFH outranges three out of the four arty options



This unit REALLY does not deserve, or need a buff.

or any changes, really.
6 Nov 2021, 15:08 PM
#3
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 128

you do realize that the LeFH is oppressive enough in team games, that it is a necessity to go a doctrine with offmaps to delete it right? Otherwise against a semi competent player, there isnt any counter play. It has high accuracy and range, which means if you have it just outside your base, no howitzer the allies can field can safely shell it, and its comically easy to defend because base dives in general are usually suicidal.

If you want to use LeFHs without being punished for them, keep a mental note of which of your opponents have or dont have doctrines with offmaps that one shot it. when you know they dont have counters, spam them to your hearts content.
6 Nov 2021, 15:12 PM
#4
avatar of Strummingbird
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 952

OP is asking for variety, not buffs/nerfs.
6 Nov 2021, 15:22 PM
#5
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 777 | Subs: 1

OP is asking for variety, not buffs/nerfs.


the okw has leig 18 fire rounds & walking stuka vet 1 ability that also has fire

the only real benefit would be that the enemy will never, ever have ML-20s with veterancy
6 Nov 2021, 15:25 PM
#6
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 128

OP is asking for variety, not buffs/nerfs.


I was responding to the first 2/3 of OP's post. Ill respond to the rest: LeFHs don't need variety. They already have different vet bonuses with the OKW getting vet 5 LefHs which fits the factions' intended designs.
MMX
6 Nov 2021, 15:26 PM
#7
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

last time i checked both the ml-20 and the b-4 had the same range as the lefh, so they should be perfectly capable of shelling back from a safe distance. after the removal of counter barrage this should now also be a more even fight than ever.

that being said, i also don't think any buffs are needed. as far as flavor goes, both lefh versions are indeed very similar, but at least the okw version has two additional vet levels and the direct fire ability thrown in for variety. although the latter is admittedly of little utility
6 Nov 2021, 15:34 PM
#8
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 128

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2021, 15:26 PMMMX
last time i checked both the ml-20 and the b-4 had the same range as the lefh, so they should be perfectly capable of shelling back from a safe distance. after the removal of counter barrage this should now also be a more even fight than ever.



Difference being that max range the LeFH has a chance in hell of actually hitting anything intentionally. and when one person builds howitzers in their base to pressure the VPs, the other person has to more aggressively* place them (read: more vulnerably) to get them within range. So in a howitzer dual, the LeFH still has a distinct advantage, even without its busted counter barrage ability
6 Nov 2021, 16:00 PM
#9
avatar of Strummingbird
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 952

the okw has leig 18 fire rounds & walking stuka vet 1 ability that also has fire


Clearly talking about heavy artillery. If you want to expand the scope, allies have loads more light/medium/heavy arty doctrinal / nondoctrinal options anyway generally (quality notwithstanding). okw and ostheer sharing one arty piece is pretty boring, having the same relevant vet only makes it more obvious.

Ill respond to the rest: LeFHs don't need variety. They already have different vet bonuses with the OKW getting vet 5 LefHs which fits the factions' intended designs.



Veterancy and statwise identical until the OKW version gets vet 4/5, which only unlocks a quite uninspired / bad ability- for all intents and purposes they're the same, nothing special about the OKW lefh that fits the faction particularly other than having two extra stars.

Don't see why people ever think variety is a bad thing, as long as it isn't confusing - more interesting sandbox of units /abilities always adds to the game, they don't have to be better/stronger. Its a pity the hummel or similar didn't make it into coh2, would've been a neat counterpart to priest/sexton and probably less annoying than LEFH anyway since it would have higher cost / shorter range.
6 Nov 2021, 17:00 PM
#10
avatar of TanithScout

Posts: 67

yeh buff the lefh why not at this point
MMX
6 Nov 2021, 17:13 PM
#11
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1



Difference being that max range the LeFH has a chance in hell of actually hitting anything intentionally. and when one person builds howitzers in their base to pressure the VPs, the other person has to more aggressively* place them (read: more vulnerably) to get them within range. So in a howitzer dual, the LeFH still has a distinct advantage, even without its busted counter barrage ability


all good and well, but how is that different from an allied player building an ml-20 to shell the vp area from the safety of their base and the axis player being hard-pressed to counter it?

also, both ml-20 and lefh are virtually carbon copies of each other, so i don't quite see why the lefh should have the advantage in an arty duel.
6 Nov 2021, 17:18 PM
#12
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 219

any arty spam is c*****, no matter how you look at it.

for those that misunderstand the point im trying to make, the idea is to make OKW and OST lefh different from each other, by giving each faction their own ability on their lefh.

imagine if all 3 allied factions got was a ml-20? and only that?

6 Nov 2021, 17:50 PM
#13
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Difference being that max range the LeFH has a chance in hell of actually hitting anything intentionally.

So in a howitzer dual, the LeFH still has a distinct advantage, even without its busted counter barrage ability


This is what we call bias.

The LeFH and ML-20 have the exact same scatter (accuracy) stats on the normal barrages.
They also have practically the same AOE profile, although it's slightly in favour of the ML-20 (94.1 AOE score for LeFH vs 101.5 for ML-20).

However, the ML-20 deals 200 damage on direct hits while the LeFH deals 160, giving the ML-20 a small edge in killing the other because it only needs two direct hits to kill the weapon (400 health) while the LeFH needs three.

It's the ML-20 that ultimately holds the advantage, although not by much.
7 Nov 2021, 00:31 AM
#14
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 128



This is what we call bias.

The LeFH and ML-20 have the exact same scatter (accuracy) stats on the normal barrages.
They also have practically the same AOE profile, although it's slightly in favour of the ML-20 (94.1 AOE score for LeFH vs 101.5 for ML-20).

However, the ML-20 deals 200 damage on direct hits while the LeFH deals 160, giving the ML-20 a small edge in killing the other because it only needs two direct hits to kill the weapon (400 health) while the LeFH needs three.

It's the ML-20 that ultimately holds the advantage, although not by much.


I stand corrected: I remember reading at some point that the LeFH did less damage but was more accurate, but if thats not the case, then so be it. Maybe I just have PTSD from dealing with its counterbarrage still. You're right, I am fairly biased: I just don't pay that much attention to howitzers in general because I don't like playing with or against them. they're a case and point example of a doctrinal tool that can only be countered by another doctrinal tool which I don't think is good design, and it doesnt need any extra encouraging.
7 Nov 2021, 08:27 AM
#15
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486



This is what we call bias.

The LeFH and ML-20 have the exact same scatter (accuracy) stats on the normal barrages.
They also have practically the same AOE profile, although it's slightly in favour of the ML-20 (94.1 AOE score for LeFH vs 101.5 for ML-20).

However, the ML-20 deals 200 damage on direct hits while the LeFH deals 160, giving the ML-20 a small edge in killing the other because it only needs two direct hits to kill the weapon (400 health) while the LeFH needs three.

It's the ML-20 that ultimately holds the advantage, although not by much.


Actually, I don't believe that's true. Last time I ran the numbers, the leFH has the advantage due to its extra shell and better AoE damage, a larger 80 damage radius letting it kill crews and infantry better.

The ML/20 is more likely to kill the artillery given time.

Baking in Vet 1 into the ML/20 makes it pretty dang close.
7 Nov 2021, 10:00 AM
#16
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Actually, I don't believe that's true. Last time I ran the numbers, the leFH has the advantage due to its extra shell and better AoE damage, a larger 80 damage radius letting it kill crews and infantry better.


LeFH has 2/4/6(8) AOE radious, with 160/160/56/8 damage.
ML-20 has 2/4/6(8) AOE radious, with 200/180/56/10 damage.
80 damage distance is 3.54 for LeFH and 3.61 for the ML-20.

LeFH does have one extra shell.
7 Nov 2021, 14:56 PM
#17
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

Thing always amazes me is that all arty can be spammed so easily (in team games ofc.). Can't we just cap them at max 1 or 2?
7 Nov 2021, 17:04 PM
#18
avatar of Kyle

Posts: 322

A quick question: My OKW Mate said I should use recon plane or Flare to give him sight so the OKW LeFH can shoot with high accuracy when target is actually visible, is that correct?

I saw that whenever I give him sight then he actually have decent accuracy but I'm not sure if it's luck or really true?

7 Nov 2021, 17:07 PM
#19
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 897

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Nov 2021, 17:04 PMKyle
A quick question: My OKW Mate said I should use recon plane or Flare to give him sight so the OKW LeFH can shoot with high accuracy when target is actually visible, is that correct?

I saw that whenever I give him sight then he actually have decent accuracy but I'm not sure if it's luck or really true?


There is a severe Fog of War scatter penalty for every(?) arty piece iirc. Definitely true for fixed howitzers.
7 Nov 2021, 17:11 PM
#20
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 777 | Subs: 1


There is a severe Fog of War scatter penalty for every(?) arty piece iirc. Definitely true for fixed howitzers.

does this penalty occur only when ordering the fire, or will the penalty occur when you lose vision?
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