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russian armor

how to maxim ?!?!????!?!?!?!?!?!?! (3v3)

13 Aug 2021, 12:27 PM
#21
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 786 | Subs: 1


you can make it work and people are using it at almost every rank, but the inconsistency kills it.

I like HMG34, despite people hating on it a lot. In 2v2 I built it every game.
If I put all HMGs in descending orders my picks would be HMG42, DShKa, HMG34, .50cal, Vickers and the last would be Maxim for sure. The first two are excellent, 34 and .50 are good, Vickers is OK and Maxim is meh.


The DSHK better be good considering that one pays 300 manpower for it

yet it is comparable at best with the mg-42, which is 40 manpower cheaper.

I think that both the Dshk and maxim would benefit from a larger firing arc, both can be pretty easily flanked without even flanking the rear, but by just walking around the mg.

clearly the maxim strats simply work better on the MG-42, as the larger cone of fire and basically immediate suppression (eventually vet 1 ability) are really good, and it's weaknesses are the same for every other machine gun. The maxim gets to beat the mg-42 in green to green cover, apparently, but that is not exactly their purpose anyhow
13 Aug 2021, 12:54 PM
#22
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Aug 2021, 12:27 PMKatukov


The DSHK better be good considering that one pays 300 manpower for it

yet it is comparable at best with the mg-42, which is 40 manpower cheaper.

I think that both the Dshk and maxim would benefit from a larger firing arc, both can be pretty easily flanked without even flanking the rear, but by just walking around the mg.

clearly the maxim strats simply work better on the MG-42, as the larger cone of fire and basically immediate suppression (eventually vet 1 ability) are really good, and it's weaknesses are the same for every other machine gun. The maxim gets to beat the mg-42 in green to green cover, apparently, but that is not exactly their purpose anyhow

AFAIK there were a lot of iterations of nerfs to maxim, because it very spammable and mobile. Maybe balance team is afraid of touching it again.
DShKa is awesome. It is a highly mobile and very effective suppression platform with 6 models. Won't be surprised if some say it is the best HMG in the game
13 Aug 2021, 14:36 PM
#23
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289


AFAIK there were a lot of iterations of nerfs to maxim, because it very spammable and mobile. Maybe balance team is afraid of touching it again.
DShKa is awesome. It is a highly mobile and very effective suppression platform with 6 models. Won't be surprised if some say it is the best HMG in the game


Its more maxim ptsd if you ask me. Its not spammable any more for the following reasons:
1. Its not nearly as mobile any more.
2. It doenst supress nearly as well as back then.
3. You need to feed it muni now.
4. Its overpriced/more expensinve now.
5. Soviets now have actual viable inf stock unlike when maxim was op.
6. Afaik it still has a longer(st) inflated build time (could wrong here though)
7. Deathloop still not fully fixed.

I find the current maxims trapped between being a actual mg and a "agressive" mg. Imo it cant do either well enough for its price.
Vaz
14 Aug 2021, 19:05 PM
#24
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158

The dshka is an anti aircraft gun isn't it? The penetration on that thing should be sky high. It makes no sense to me why the best armor piercing machine gun in the game is the mg42 vet1. Why in the world....Shooting incendiary rounds(I call them rainbow rounds) causes higher armor penetration? Penetrates armor better than dshka and .50 which are slower firing with bigger bullets. Isn't that supposed to be the tradeoff? Bigger bullets hit harder but you have to fire the slower because they heat up the barrel faster.
14 Aug 2021, 23:32 PM
#25
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 786 | Subs: 1


AFAIK there were a lot of iterations of nerfs to maxim, because it very spammable and mobile. Maybe balance team is afraid of touching it again.
DShKa is awesome. It is a highly mobile and very effective suppression platform with 6 models. Won't be surprised if some say it is the best HMG in the game


Why is it that the balance team doesn't wanna touch allied weapons because they were actually good 6 years ago, but then give axis a game breaking strategy each fucking patch?

the maxim seems to only work when you get to fight an mg-42 in building vs building, but if you fire first and the enemy doesn't have vet 1
15 Aug 2021, 21:05 PM
#26
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 772

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2021, 19:05 PMVaz
The dshka is an anti aircraft gun isn't it? The penetration on that thing should be sky high. It makes no sense to me why the best armor piercing machine gun in the game is the mg42 vet1. Why in the world....Shooting incendiary rounds(I call them rainbow rounds) causes higher armor penetration? Penetrates armor better than dshka and .50 which are slower firing with bigger bullets. Isn't that supposed to be the tradeoff? Bigger bullets hit harder but you have to fire the slower because they heat up the barrel faster.

MG42
Damage - 4. Penetration near 2.2. Penetration mid 1.8. Penetration far 1.4
+100% damage +9 penetration with AP rounds
DShKa
Damage - 10 Penetration near- 7. Penetration mid - 6. Penetration far - 5
+200% pen with AP rounds.

So it's clearly that DSHhKa has significantly higher pen, but it does not mean that it has higher DPS. 8 damage with that ROF and you have a light vehicle killer, although I'd argue that DShKa is considerably better at killing light tanks. Seen more then several times that thing kill a Luchs.
15 Aug 2021, 22:10 PM
#27
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 956

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2021, 19:05 PMVaz
The dshka is an anti aircraft gun isn't it? The penetration on that thing should be sky high. It makes no sense to me why the best armor piercing machine gun in the game is the mg42 vet1. Why in the world....Shooting incendiary rounds(I call them rainbow rounds) causes higher armor penetration? Penetrates armor better than dshka and .50 which are slower firing with bigger bullets. Isn't that supposed to be the tradeoff? Bigger bullets hit harder but you have to fire the slower because they heat up the barrel faster.

I think the 'IAPs' are meant to be hardened steel penetrators with phosphorus tips (tracers), so a different ammo entirely. The steel core is what punches through plates, much like the other AP ammo abilities. The 'rainbow' historically (and today) is to let you put more fire on the target more accurately


Regarding Maxim, I think it's fine overall but it can be frustrating that someone just edged out of the arc and then chucks a nade in your face. I do steal maxims unless I have too many MGs, it's still an MG at the end of the day and it's good to 'share' with your opponent the distinct sound B-)
Vaz
15 Aug 2021, 23:01 PM
#28
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158

I know the penetration value is higher on the allied guns. They will go through light tanks, while rainbow rounds won't. The issue is that the mg42 is firing different ammo, designed for AP apparently, at the same rate it fires the baby bullets. It just seems outside of the design I typically see in every gun. The more armor piercing your bullets can do, the slower the gun fires. This is standard stuff for any game, likely real life too.
23 Sep 2021, 21:32 PM
#29
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1366

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Aug 2021, 23:01 PMVaz
...likely real life too.


No. If it's the same size of ammunition firing out of the same gun it's going to fire at the same speed unless the machine gun has a way to adjust RPM and the user does so. (Which the MG42 does iirc)

It's the mechanism of the weapon that determines RPM. At least for all the machine guns that I know of.
24 Sep 2021, 08:09 AM
#30
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

Only thing OP wants to hear is; "Maxims suck and should get buffs". Really no point in discussing this.


When I use Maxims they always seem to work, it's all about positioning, keeping the arc-cone out of the FOW and ofcourse pure RNG.
24 Sep 2021, 16:44 PM
#31
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

Only thing OP wants to hear is; "Maxims suck and should get buffs". Really no point in discussing this.


When I use Maxims they always seem to work, it's all about positioning, keeping the arc-cone out of the FOW and ofcourse pure RNG.


It kinda works, it works as it should when you pay muni. If the maxim was actualy cheaper in mp then the mg42 it would be completly fine.

Right now you pay a premium price and need to tech for a less potent mg wich needs extra costs per use to be on par with the axis mg's.
Its overpriced thats why imo people think it sucks.
24 Sep 2021, 20:37 PM
#32
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1096

Only thing OP wants to hear is; "Maxims suck and should get buffs". Really no point in discussing this.


He ain't wrong though.

Maxim is bloody terrible.

25 Sep 2021, 00:33 AM
#33
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 786 | Subs: 1

Only thing OP wants to hear is; "Maxims suck and should get buffs". Really no point in discussing this.


When I use Maxims they always seem to work, it's all about positioning, keeping the arc-cone out of the FOW and ofcourse pure RNG.


>and of course pure rng
you're saying that enemies sit in your limited arc of fire, play any other machine gun the exact same way and you'll have a considerably better time


true to the fact that i think it sucks, but i am being objective
26 Sep 2021, 20:13 PM
#34
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1096

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2021, 00:56 AMKatukov
I consider the maxim, like all allied machine guns, garbage. I never build them in the early game, i find other soviet units to be more flexible.

However, what if I, god forbid, was wrong?? What is the forum opinion on the maxim, and, more importantly, how to effectively utilize it & what strategies are viable with it?


How to assist an ally who has chosen to build maxims.

Step 1: /l
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