Login

russian armor

Fallshirms are OKW power creep

28 Jul 2021, 20:09 PM
#41
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 630


IIRC I had 2 unupgraded(MP upkeep for IS is too high to have more), 1 MG, later on built a second because of his blob, AT gun, RRE, and a single commando I believe.
I use RRE to build 1-2 fuel caches from the second minute on because the longer FC are on the map the more fuel you will get for longer.
My two teammates actually just play how they like, I'm the "support" that has less field presence in order to afford FC and heavier armor earlier than most would expect, which catches them offguard and is usually how we win because they invest in the medium armor game and it doesn't pay off.


Sinking 500 mp into caches early on and hanging on for dear life till you get a comet is a dicey strat at best.

Load up your army and if you wipe a volks or blow up a kubel, then maybe get a cache.
Pip
28 Jul 2021, 20:09 PM
#42
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580



If my teammates that were playing normally in this particular match could hold them off to some extent and hold 1-2 VPs this could very well have worked in this particular case, but it didn't for a lot of reasons including that absurd 5 second time-to-drop smoke pots ability that he used each and every single time he saw my MG.
I'm sure he had atleast 2 Volks, also a MG covering the north side of Winnekendonk in the building next to the munitions point.
Maybe I should've gotten a sniper or double, but I fear of just not paying attetion for a single second costing me 360MP.


But it didn't work, a good deal of which is likely because you're expecting your two(?) teammates to be able to hold off three(?) players while you stall for a "game winning" vehicle. It's just not a workable strategy vs competent players, and you're putting yourself at a massive disadvantage by basically being a player down until you can try and stall for a Comet... by which point it will be too late if your enemy has any sort of sense.

You'll be getting far more resources (And being MUCH further ahead of your opponent by virtue of them /not/ getting many resources) by playing more "normally", building enough infantry/lighter vehicles, and aggressively capturing territory, rather than building caches early. The tempo advantage you're giving your opponents is pretty crippling. They can't spam smoke pots if you deny them munitions.

Two volks, an MG, and three Fallschirmjager (along with one Sturm, presumably) is a LOT of investment into infantry, you definitely need to not stick rigidly to this gimmick build

You guys are putting yourself at such a disadvantage with this strategy that it's not really possible to put it down to the Fallschirmjager at all... Obers would have done basically the exact same thing, or even Pgrens.

A sniper would indeed have bled your opponent like a stuck pig, though you would, of course, need to babysit it.
29 Jul 2021, 00:13 AM
#43
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jul 2021, 20:09 PMKoRneY


Sinking 500 mp into caches early on and hanging on for dear life till you get a comet is a dicey strat at best.

Load up your army and if you wipe a volks or blow up a kubel, then maybe get a cache.

Yeah I just hate going toe-to-toe with PZ4s(especially OKW) since they have bullshit high armor and I'm likely going to lose so I just want to have a tank a tier above it so I have to stop worrying fighting this mess.
29 Jul 2021, 01:01 AM
#44
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889


Yeah I just hate going toe-to-toe with PZ4s(especially OKW) since they have bullshit high armor and I'm likely going to lose so I just want to have a tank a tier above it so I have to stop worrying fighting this mess.

The problem is that you'll never make the Comet because the Pz IV is helping roll your entire army. Or if you do, there's a wall of AT waiting for you and maybe even a JP4. You're playing to OKW's strengths, their late game is better, and they'll be extremely aggressive early on to try and buy room. And even if you get the Comet, they have the Panther which is overall a better AT platform and can outslug Comets consistently.
29 Jul 2021, 01:04 AM
#45
avatar of GreenDevil

Posts: 394


Dont have much access to vehicles up until the 12 min mark unless I rush for a centaur at the 10 minute mark if he's blobbing which is going to delay my Comet, or wait until the 12-14 min mark to get a Comet and be relatively safe against any PZ4 or Panther rush.
My only option at that point would be to make another Vickers or a Sniper or double sniper, but we all know thats a very risky play and manpower intensive with less payoff compared to OST/SOV sniper since the UKF sniper shoots slower.


AEC is your friend, so is Infantry Officer and Vickers HMG and so are double brens and also 5 man engineer squads with flamers (doctrine specific).

If you are getting overrun by Falls because you are rushing tech for a fast 12-13 minute comet instead of building some AI counters or stalling tactics in to your build - well unfortunately that is an L2P issue.
29 Jul 2021, 01:19 AM
#46
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191


The problem is that you'll never make the Comet because the Pz IV is helping roll your entire army. Or if you do, there's a wall of AT waiting for you and maybe even a JP4. You're playing to OKW's strengths, their late game is better, and they'll be extremely aggressive early on to try and buy room. And even if you get the Comet, they have the Panther which is overall a better AT platform and can outslug Comets consistently.

I don't make the Comet because the "P4 is helping roll my entire army" but because he expects his P4 to be top dog and uncounterable by any allied vehicle that comes out when his P4 comes out, I'm exploiting that weakness and it tends to pay off.I'm still better off with a Comet+6pounder than a Cromwell+6pounder or Centaur+6Pounder because he is forced to use his P4 defensively.
JP4s are extremely rare because OKW players seem to braindead, JP4 is top dog TD due to its reload, range vet camouflage and P4 armor for 135 fuel.No idea why they don't use it more.
Also with my fuel income by the time he gets the fuel for a Panther to "counter" my Comet(assuming he's built a P4 beforehand) I can build a firefly and lock him into a very bad spot.
Panther head-on 1v1 vs Comet might win 50-60% of engagements, but I can bounce and pen him just like he can do to me, it's more or less RNG based on who wins but I still have a top tier medium that has both AI and AT whilst he's stuck with a fragile P4 assuming it hasn't died and a fat TD with no AI except if he parks infront of a infantry squad.
29 Jul 2021, 01:25 AM
#47
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191



AEC is your friend, so is Infantry Officer and Vickers HMG and so are double brens and also 5 man engineer squads with flamers (doctrine specific).

If you are getting overrun by Falls because you are rushing tech for a fast 12-13 minute comet instead of building some AI counters or stalling tactics in to your build - well unfortunately that is an L2P issue.

>AEC
>poor AI
>poor AT outside of abilities and mark vehicle

>AF
>4man squad until you get vet, bad without spending muni on them, also worse version of Brenmandos

>Vickers HMG
>low suppression, only build it because it's a T0 HMG with a wide fire arc and thats the only reason you should capitalize on it.

Complaining about PTRS Penals destroying your P4 is also a L2P issue,
29 Jul 2021, 01:36 AM
#48
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889


I don't make the Comet because the "P4 is helping roll my entire army" but because he expects his P4 to be top dog and uncounterable by any allied vehicle that comes out when his P4 comes out, I'm exploiting that weakness and it tends to pay off.I'm still better off with a Comet+6pounder than a Cromwell+6pounder or Centaur+6Pounder because he is forced to use his P4 defensively.
JP4s are extremely rare because OKW players seem to braindead, JP4 is top dog TD due to its reload, range vet camouflage and P4 armor for 135 fuel.No idea why they don't use it more.
Also with my fuel income by the time he gets the fuel for a Panther to "counter" my Comet(assuming he's built a P4 beforehand) I can build a firefly and lock him into a very bad spot.
Panther head-on 1v1 vs Comet might win 50-60% of engagements, but I can bounce and pen him just like he can do to me, it's more or less RNG based on who wins but I still have a top tier medium that has both AI and AT whilst he's stuck with a fragile P4 assuming it hasn't died and a fat TD with no AI except if he parks infront of a infantry squad.


It won't work vs any decent OKW player. Assuming that 'somehow' they haven't booted you off the field with infantry alone (a major stretch), then the Ausf J will be the final nail in the coffin. They'll send your army running, blow up your caches (if not already) and very likely have double rak waiting for you at minimum. Ausf J has 38%+ pen chance vs Comet frontally as well, so to be ignored at one's own peril. Comet won't help you one bit against that, not even Tiger will beat that comp.

Panther also has 1 hit more of HP and better range to boot.
29 Jul 2021, 01:53 AM
#49
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191



It won't work vs any decent OKW player. Assuming that 'somehow' they haven't booted you off the field with infantry alone (a major stretch), then the Ausf J will be the final nail in the coffin. They'll send your army running, blow up your caches (if not already) and very likely have double rak waiting for you at minimum. Ausf J has 38%+ pen chance vs Comet frontally as well, so to be ignored at ones own peril. Comet won't help you one bit against that, not even Tiger will beat that comp.

Panther also has 1 hit more of HP and better range to boot.

I'll rip my own teeth out if a single P4 was ever the "final nail in the coffin" for anyone.A single AT gun forces it off the field if the P4 doesnt have Panzer Commander.Apparently I don't play against "decent OKW players" because rank 470 isn't a decent rank and so your fantasy you just splashed over my screen has no basis in reality since we're not talking about 1v1 and I have a teammate right next to me to help out.
The second a P4 sees a Comet it retreats, 9/10 times.
29 Jul 2021, 02:20 AM
#50
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 630


I'll rip my own teeth out if a single P4 was ever the "final nail in the coffin" for anyone.A single AT gun forces it off the field if the P4 doesnt have Panzer Commander.Apparently I don't play against "decent OKW players" because rank 470 isn't a decent rank and so your fantasy you just splashed over my screen has no basis in reality since we're not talking about 1v1 and I have a teammate right next to me to help out.
The second a P4 sees a Comet it retreats, 9/10 times.


Strictly talking about team games. But w/e
Pip
29 Jul 2021, 02:35 AM
#51
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580


I'll rip my own teeth out if a single P4 was ever the "final nail in the coffin" for anyone.A single AT gun forces it off the field if the P4 doesnt have Panzer Commander.Apparently I don't play against "decent OKW players" because rank 470 isn't a decent rank and so your fantasy you just splashed over my screen has no basis in reality since we're not talking about 1v1 and I have a teammate right next to me to help out.
The second a P4 sees a Comet it retreats, 9/10 times.


You clearly don't usually play against decent OKW players, no... but you just played against one in the game you lost, and he exploited your massively flawed build and won the game. That's what'll happen again.

Of course a P4 will retreat if it sees a Comet, but you're only managing to do that versus weaker players who aren't able to push your crippled army off the field.

The thing is about your teammate being there to help you out is that there's one force (from him), half a force from you, against two full forces from the enemy. Him being there to "help you" doesn't magically make your army not crippled.

29 Jul 2021, 02:39 AM
#52
avatar of FireFlyAT

Posts: 29

such a fun read lol
29 Jul 2021, 06:57 AM
#53
avatar of MugCostanza

Posts: 2

What a great read, made me realise how unwilling MassaDerek is when it comes to adaptating to enemy tactics.

Because the enemy is not doing what I want them to do, therefore x unit is OP. I should win because Comet is better than a PanzerIV. qq
29 Jul 2021, 08:21 AM
#54
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 471

Again, don't play UKF.

Not a sane person would expect to win with UKF against similar skilled person.

This all could have been better if you weren't playing UKF. (And also not build cache at early stage)
29 Jul 2021, 10:43 AM
#55
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 889

Well I tried. Nothing more for me to do here.
29 Jul 2021, 13:04 PM
#56
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 630

Well I tried. Nothing more for me to do here.


You did. One does not simply 470 ukf rank
29 Jul 2021, 13:48 PM
#57
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 764

Stalling for a Comet sounds like something from 2020
29 Jul 2021, 15:14 PM
#58
avatar of MassaDerek

Posts: 191

Again, don't play UKF.

Not a sane person would expect to win with UKF against similar skilled person.

This all could have been better if you weren't playing UKF. (And also not build cache at early stage)

>T0 MG
>Defensive faction overall
>start with inf that can build sandbags
>non-doctrinal 17 pounder
>Firefly
>Brenmandos(SOV, my previous most played faction has shit INF DPS)
>Comet(an actual equivalent to the Panther so I don't have to babysit 15 AT guns and 5 TDs)
>Fits my playstyle more than USF/SOV
Yeah I don't see a reason for not playing them except IS being trash out of cover and needing a boatload of resources to turn into halfway decent inf
29 Jul 2021, 15:48 PM
#59
avatar of Klement Pikhtura

Posts: 764

Comet is not an equivalent to Panther. No shot, not in COH2. https://i.serealia.ca/files/coh2dps.html# take a look there, if you don't believe me.
Pip
29 Jul 2021, 16:10 PM
#60
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1580


>T0 MG
>Defensive faction overall
>start with inf that can build sandbags
>non-doctrinal 17 pounder
>Firefly
>Brenmandos(SOV, my previous most played faction has shit INF DPS)
>Comet(an actual equivalent to the Panther so I don't have to babysit 15 AT guns and 5 TDs)
>Fits my playstyle more than USF/SOV
Yeah I don't see a reason for not playing them except IS being trash out of cover and needing a boatload of resources to turn into halfway decent inf


IS are very good infantry straight out of the gate, and become /extremely/ good even just with Bolster. You don't need bolster and double brens for them to be "halfway decent"

The 17 pounder (like all Emplacements) is not great, and decent players will be able to deal with them pretty cost effectively.

The firefly is... Ok, though the SU-85 and Jackson especially are leagues ahead of it.

Brenmandos are very strong, though very expensive... Though SOV not having optimal INF DPS really doesn't matter. That isnt really what their infantry are for.

The Comet isnt the same sort of tank as the Panther. What sort of weird strawman is the idea that you need "15 AT guns and 5 TDs", anyway?

Weren't you complaining about the Vickers not being very good earlier on?

The reason not to play UKF is because they are a fundamentally flawed faction, even if they "fit your playstyle".

1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest
Diversity Cup Grand Final

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag shadics ARG.
  • U.S. Forces flag TüMe
  • Ostheer flag The101stAirBorne
  • Ostheer flag Clororaa
uploaded by TüMe

Board Info

233 users are online: 2 members and 231 guests
Protos Angelus, DooMaSS
14 posts in the last 24h
110 posts in the last week
491 posts in the last month
Registered members: 36389
Welcome our newest member, Takayama
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM