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My perspective on the upcoming changes as a UKF main

23 Dec 2020, 16:50 PM
#41
avatar of Raxzero

Posts: 55

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 16:04 PMVipper

You are assuming that UKF cap slower in preview when they can actually cap faster by producing a Ro.E.


There's absolutely no benefit of producing sappers in the early-game beyond capping purposes. The MP that goes to there will result in less firepower which will indirectly end up costing you map control. Unlike other factions' engineers, you can't even build sandbags with them or destroy cover to help defending.
23 Dec 2020, 18:45 PM
#43
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 16:50 PMRaxzero


There's absolutely no benefit of producing sappers in the early-game beyond capping purposes. The MP that goes to there will result in less firepower which will indirectly end up costing you map control. Unlike other factions' engineers, you can't even build sandbags with them or destroy cover to help defending.


Agree, which is also why I think moving Engineers to T0 is pointless as there is simply no point in building them over Infantry Sections in the first minutes of the game. It is only after you have a UC with Vickers that getting a Royal Engineer makes sense but at that time frame you already have T1 up anyway because the Vickers upgrade is locked behind it and you need healing upgrades on your Infantry Sections.

23 Dec 2020, 20:06 PM
#44
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 211

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 16:04 PMVipper

You are assuming that UKF cap slower in preview when they can actually cap faster by producing a Ro.E.


Vipper is actually right on this I did some testing.

The chosen map was crossroads. I did a regular 4 section build on the live patch, a 4 section build on the test patch, and a 2 section, sapper, Section build on the test patch. The requirement was to cap one half of the map and build one sandbag on the fuel point.

The 4 sections build on the live patch capping speed was 2:05
The 4 sections build on the test patch capping speed was 2:12
The 2 sections, sapper, section build capping speed was 2:03. At 2:12, I capped 2 more standard territory points than the 4 section build on the test patch.

Keep in mind all timers were started at 0, I made sure to edge cap as well.

This means that theoretically, it is true that a brit player will have more map if they go for a sapper after 2nd section because of the reduced cost and build time of the sapper allowing it to come significantly faster than the 3rd section would in a 4 section build. A Sappers squad will definitely allow the brit player to sustain map control early if it just came down to capping ofc.

Whether or not that holds true when another player is contesting it is another story. Will need some case sample games to determine that.
23 Dec 2020, 20:12 PM
#45
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 155



Vipper is actually right on this I did some testing.

The chosen map was crossroads. I did a regular 4 section build on the live patch, a 4 section build on the test patch, and a 2 section, sapper, Section build on the test patch. The requirement was to cap one half of the map and build one sandbag on the fuel point.

The 4 sections build on the live patch capping speed was 2:05
The 4 sections build on the test patch capping speed was 2:12
The 2 sections, sapper, section build capping speed was 2:03. At 2:12, I capped 2 more standard territory points than the 4 section build on the test patch.

Keep in mind all timers were started at 0, I made sure to edge cap as well.

This means that theoretically, it is true that a brit player will have more map if they go for a sapper after 2nd section because of the reduced cost and build time of the sapper allowing it to come significantly faster than the 3rd section would in a 4 section build. A Sappers squad will definitely allow the brit player to sustain map control early if it just came down to capping ofc.

Whether or not that holds true when another player is contesting it is another story. Will need some case sample games to determine that.


4 man royal engis are still awful to fight with in the early game
23 Dec 2020, 20:17 PM
#46
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 16:04 PMVipper

You are assuming that UKF cap slower in preview when they can actually cap faster by producing a Ro.E.

You honestly believe current live 4 sections with 1.25 cap speed cap slower then preview version bo with 3 1.0 cap speed rifles and 1 combat ineffective RE with 1.25?

Like... really?
Based on... what exactly, because most certainly not on stats or reality.


snip

Was it tested against an actual player or easy AI?
Because players will contest you and that RE isn't going to hold any territory and neither will the outnumbered by that point sections.
23 Dec 2020, 20:58 PM
#47
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 211

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 20:17 PMKatitof

You honestly believe current live 4 sections with 1.25 cap speed cap slower then preview version bo with 3 1.0 cap speed rifles and 1 combat ineffective RE with 1.25?

Like... really?
Based on... what exactly, because most certainly not on stats or reality.


Was it tested against an actual player or easy AI?
Because players will contest you and that RE isn't going to hold any territory and neither will the outnumbered by that point sections.


An A.I turned off.

I said at the end of the post that whether it holds true with contesting units needs testing. Cause especially on crossroads it's actually less efficient to use a section to side cap for more map control rather than just using a Sappers squad early on.

In fact in similar fights vs stuff like pioneers or even a lone osttrupen squad Sappers perform okay.

A side note is that the sandbag building change doesn't really affect your capping speed if you only build the sandbag on the fuel point for the defense.

It all depends on some case sample games thou and will need some real tests. However, Vipper is right that in a vacuum, you can cap faster with 3 section 1 Sapper than you can with 4 section in the very beginning of the game.
23 Dec 2020, 21:15 PM
#48
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13074 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 20:17 PMKatitof


I suggest you install the game and do what ever test you see fit.
23 Dec 2020, 21:18 PM
#49
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13074 | Subs: 1




Great job man thank for testing and providing the feedback.
23 Dec 2020, 21:29 PM
#50
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 155

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2020, 11:27 AMElpern

.. and you have 6 pounder and mortar pit, reason its not being brought up by either of us until now is because we know you cant rely on either for the majority of engagements across the map. Battlegroup is not bad, but aec vs flakht is not a good matchup for the flak and skipping lightvehicle as okw will make you bleed a large amount vs uc/aec with only raketen to force them away for an occasional repair



You can always sit back and use leigs if you wish. Going straight for p4 as okw is also something you can do as okw vs ukf I find, ukf does not have a really good anti infantry light vehicle that can't be dealt with by raketen. Staying aggressive on the move with stgs and grenades can really push them back. And getting early obers can help really bleed them nicely. Don't you think ?
9 Jan 2021, 14:36 PM
#51
avatar of Kalaise

Posts: 36

Why THAT reaction to bofors/AEC not becoming exclusive?
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