the stug has more penetration... also the stug also outclasses the SU-76 in terms of DPS and HP... the stug is the superior unit to the SU-76 by a longshot
As incredible as it may seem, SU76 has more penetration (and more range) than the StugG.
Zis Barrage need longer cooldown
26 Oct 2020, 14:07 PM
#41
Posts: 311
As incredible as it may seem, SU76 has more penetration (and more range) than the StugG.
26 Oct 2020, 14:12 PM
#42
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
As incredible as it may seem, SU76 has more penetration (and more range) than the StugG.
I think you are looking at the old Coh2stats which has outdated stats. Though the difference is barely there due to the range difference.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
26 Oct 2020, 14:17 PM
#43
Posts: 311
I think you are looking at the old Coh2stats which has outdated stats. Though the difference is barely there due to the range difference.
It could be.
I always refer here: http://www.coh2-stats.com/vehicles/m4a3e8_sherman_easy_8_mp#collapseOne
Do you have an updated one?
26 Oct 2020, 14:18 PM
#44
Posts: 5279
Jumping in without reading so sorry if it's been mentioned - imo the zis should just be more expensive. Same with the mortar for that matter. There's nothing wrong with these units providing more than their contemporaries given the infantry proper is generally lacking (at least until 7 man) but the price should be paid.
Higher than average durability and utility at the cost of slightly weaker primary function isn't enough imo. Bump its price up a bit and see what that looks like.
Higher than average durability and utility at the cost of slightly weaker primary function isn't enough imo. Bump its price up a bit and see what that looks like.
#stalinwept
26 Oct 2020, 14:21 PM
#45
Posts: 1979
It could be.
I always refer here: http://www.coh2-stats.com/vehicles/m4a3e8_sherman_easy_8_mp#collapseOne
Do you have an updated one?
https://coh2.serealia.ca/
the SU-76
Penetration near
180
Penetration mid
170
Penetration far
160
the StuG
Penetration near
200
Penetration mid
185
Penetration far
170
26 Oct 2020, 14:28 PM
#46
Posts: 1273
It's only max 20 difference and it worth noting that SU76 will often have to fight against units with higher armour values, whereas StuG will face weaker armoured units. Penetration values alone will mean nothing. So overall StuG will penetrate more. It is the superior unit. A lot of people excel-stating seem to forget that.
26 Oct 2020, 14:30 PM
#47
Posts: 1979
the StuG has more penetration than the SU-76 though... soo really its more of a double whammy more than anything...
26 Oct 2020, 14:32 PM
#48
Posts: 311
26 Oct 2020, 14:35 PM
#49
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
That's not how it works...
Well I remembered incorrectly it is the SU-76 barrage that kill model when vet 2.
The damage profiles are in post #12 (if I have not missed anything)
26 Oct 2020, 14:36 PM
#50
Posts: 1289
The grenades/barrage analogy is simply off mark, I will not even bother explaining why.
The why bother with this repley?
Field gun barrage is unique to soviets. No nades stock is also unique to soviets.
People make it out to be a absolute wipe ability wich it is absolutly not.
26 Oct 2020, 14:38 PM
#51
Posts: 2243
The why bother with this repley?
Field gun barrage is unique to soviets. No nades stock is also unique to soviets.
People make it out to be a absolute wipe ability wich it is absolutly not.
than..at least give barrage the same CD like grenades
26 Oct 2020, 14:38 PM
#52
Posts: 1289
The ZiS barrage is almost a guaranteed retreat for most HMG, ATG or indirect fire like mortars, taking in consideration that its firing always 4men squads.
This is true.
A garanteed retreat is something esle then a garateed wipe. Certain people claim is near or a garanteed wipe on hit at max range even.
Even against 4 men it rarely wipes esp with the first shot.
26 Oct 2020, 14:40 PM
#53
Posts: 311
the SU-76
Penetration near
180
Penetration mid
170
Penetration far
160
the StuG
Penetration near
200
Penetration mid
185
Penetration far
170
Almost the same stats, but with 10 more range + Barrage ability. More than enough to bully/snipe P4s, Stugs, Halftracks and Team Weapons.
26 Oct 2020, 14:40 PM
#54
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
The why bother with this repley?
Field gun barrage is unique to soviets. No nades stock is also unique to soviets.
People make it out to be a absolute wipe ability wich it is absolutly not.
Each faction have unique things that does not mean much either.
Comparing grenades with barrages is simply misleading. They are different thing.
The abilities CD is very low and there in real justification for it.
26 Oct 2020, 14:44 PM
#55
Posts: 1979
Almost the same stats, but with 10 more range + Barrage ability. More than enough to bully/snipe P4s, Stugs, Halftracks and Team Weapons.
the tradeoff here is the lower DPS and extremely low health... the SU-76 dies to 3 shots from a medium tank while taking 6 shots to kill one... it can most certainly harrass P4s... maybe stugs if the enemy is a dumbass... but it can neither bully nor snipe these units...
the SU-76 is widely considered to be an inefficient unit anyways... its value is easily superseded by the SU-85/ZIS3 combo... its the reason why you dont see the SU-76 very often...
26 Oct 2020, 14:44 PM
#56
Posts: 311
A garanteed retreat is something esle then a garateed wipe. Certain people claim is near or a garanteed wipe on hit at max range even.
Even against 4 men it rarely wipes esp with the first shot.
Losing a position (by a wipe or by a retreat) because of an OP ability like the ZiS or SU76 barrage is almost the same. You lose the position!!!
26 Oct 2020, 14:54 PM
#57
Posts: 311
the tradeoff here is the lower DPS and extremely low health... the SU-76 dies to 3 shots from a medium tank while taking 6 shots to kill one... it can most certainly harrass P4s... maybe stugs if the enemy is a dumbass... but it can neither bully nor snipe these units...
the SU-76 is widely considered to be an inefficient unit anyways... its value is easily superseded by the SU-85/ZIS3 combo... its the reason why you dont see the SU-76 very often...
Ok. We can say SU76 and Stug are quite similar in terms of AT option.
BUT, the SU76 have an extra ability (Barrage).
The same happends with ZiS vs PAK.
26 Oct 2020, 15:04 PM
#58
Posts: 311
the SU-76 is widely considered to be an inefficient unit anyways... its value is easily superseded by the SU-85/ZIS3 combo... its the reason why you dont see the SU-76 very often...
At least SOVs have a better TD option than the SU76 (the SU85). Imagine playing Ost only with Stugs as TDs.... or Panthers (but they are not meant to be used as TDs like SU85, Jacksons, FF or JP4 cause of its horrible ROF and Accuracy).
26 Oct 2020, 15:07 PM
#59
Posts: 1979
Ok. We can say SU76 and Stug are quite similar in terms of AT option.
incorrect... the StuG is a far superior AT platform to the SU-76...
BUT, the SU76 have an extra ability (Barrage).
The same happends with ZiS vs PAK.
the difference between the ZIS and a pak is quite minor... 1s reload and 10 penetration in exchange for barrage and 6 man
a stug meanwhile gets 70 (100%) more armor 160 (28%) more health 20 vs 17 (15%) greater target size 0.04 v s0.0375 (6%) more accuracy 6% more DPS in exchange for 10 (16%) more range and slightly higher mobility Speed: 6.3 Accel: 2.3 Rotate: 32 (SU-76) vs Speed: 6 Accel: 2.1 Rotate: 28 (StuG)
26 Oct 2020, 15:09 PM
#60
Posts: 1979
At least SOVs have a better TD option than the SU76 (the SU85). Imagine playing Ost only with Stugs as TDs.... or Panthers (but they are not meant to be used as TDs like SU85, Jacksons, FF or JP4 cause of its horrible ROF and Accuracy).
the panther is pretty balanced against the SU-85 and FF... 4 shots to kill the SU-85/FF and 6 shots to kill a panther while the panther faster and half decent against infantry...
the jackson is another story... even now i wonder why the devs decided to put the faction with the most kickass earlygame infantry with the strongest lategame tank destroyer....
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