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WC 51 Changes

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Katitof
24 Aug 2020, 10:43 AM
#21
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 10:39 AMmr.matrix300




"I dont understand this discussion, it is one of the most overperforming single units in 1v1.
Lower its range, take away its late game abilities and it would still be viable" - A player who is rank 3 with USF in 1 vs 1 ( and top 5 with every other faction )

But ofc someone who doesn't play axis and someone who doesn't even play the game at all feel the need to defend the WC 51 ...


Given the reasons people claim for why its OP, I don't think anyone here understands the discussion by your own criteria, including you.

You bunch of muppets are completely oblivious to the fact that it doesn't matter what WC51 does, but what you put inside of it.

Have you seen this unit "overperforming" even ONCE in your life without thompson cav rifles inside it?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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mr.matrix300
24 Aug 2020, 10:58 AM
#22
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 10:43 AMKatitof

Have you seen this unit "overperforming" even ONCE in your life without thompson cav rifles inside it?


Yes. And apparently I am not the only one. Just look at the linked thread.

Oh wait ...

I forgot. Even top players are a


jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 10:43 AMKatitof

bunch of muppets


when they disagree with you
jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






Playing with randoms





jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not









jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.







jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:11 AMCODGUY
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not







jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AMProtos Angelus


Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken





jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.



jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




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Protos Angelus
24 Aug 2020, 10:59 AM
#23
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 10:39 AMmr.matrix300




"I dont understand this discussion, it is one of the most overperforming single units in 1v1.
Lower its range, take away its late game abilities and it would still be viable" - A player who is rank 3 with USF in 1 vs 1 ( and top 5 with every other faction )

But ofc someone who doesn't play axis and someone who doesn't even play the game at all feel the need to defend the WC 51 ...


I'm not defending WC51. In any mode other than 1v1, it's quite fine. I don't play 1v1 so I'm not going to judge whether it's OP there or not. I'm stating that there is a lot of complaining from both Axis and Allies players about the OPness of some units (which are not OP). Is WC51 OP in 1v1? Maybe.. doubt it's OP, perhaps cheese at some points. OP would mean that playing this unit would definitely help you snowball late. That's what OP means. OP units need hard nerfs and are usually due to wild patches that address it's UPness. From UP to OP. WC51 is not OP in any regard by it's stats or timing. It's cheese same as it's cheese early on to play vs snipers. Or Kubel spam. Or Volks vs IS on maps that favor IS with range and cover. Strong != OP. Cheese != OP.....
which is reflected in the poll. (except those that want to nerf multiple things, that's clearly whereaboos).

You do know there are other modes besides competitive? Ever thought I play axis casually vs other people and sometimes Experts? Ever crossed your mind?
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
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mr.matrix300
24 Aug 2020, 11:08 AM
#25
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518


jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:04 AMKatitof

In fact, if you find them agreeing with you, you should instantly start backtracking to see what you did horrible wrong.



Maybe you should tell CN ( rank 3 in 1 vs 1 as USF ) this too, since he also agreed that the WC 51 is OP.


jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:04 AMKatitof

Vipper and achpawel circle jerking each other over allied units "op" aren't the authorities you should follow.


People having different opinions than you =/= circle jerking
jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






Playing with randoms





jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not









jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.







jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:11 AMCODGUY
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not







jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AMProtos Angelus


Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken





jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.



jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




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Darkpiatre
24 Aug 2020, 11:13 AM
#26
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 10:58 AMmr.matrix300


Yes. And apparently I am not the only one. Just look at the linked thread.

Oh wait ...

I forgot. Even top players are a

when they disagree with you


Wanting to balance USF is exposing yourself to every self-proclamed god of the game with either a rank greater than 500 in teamgame (with only USF) or no rank at all.

Don't forget that AXIS OP cause the Panther/Jagtiger/Elephant has a tremendous AI capability and Rifleman are a very bad mainline.

Trying to teach them reason is a waste of time, put clearly your arguments and leave the balance team the final decision. They are competent and will understand that a little car which has triple the utility of a UC,Kubel or scout car may be a problem considering it's price.
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GiaA
24 Aug 2020, 11:15 AM
#27
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 10:43 AMKatitof

Have you seen this unit "overperforming" even ONCE in your life without thompson cav rifles inside it?


I'm gonna answer that for him. Yes. But pls ignore me like you always do with people who aren't forum warriors :D
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Katitof
24 Aug 2020, 11:18 AM
#28
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:15 AMGiaA


I'm gonna answer that for him. Yes. But pls ignore me like you always do with people who aren't forum warriors :D

Its fine, you can be acknowledged as long as you'll be seen before the spammers bury it.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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GiaA
24 Aug 2020, 11:30 AM
#29
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 712 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:18 AMKatitof

Its fine, you can be acknowledged as long as you'll be seen before the spammers bury it.


You're usually fighting an honorable fight against hordes of forum warriors but in this case you're dead wrong and they happen to be right. WC51 is 100% broken. I doubt you'd find someone who plays the game and disagrees.
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Katitof
24 Aug 2020, 11:41 AM
#30
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17884 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:30 AMGiaA


You're usually fighting an honorable fight against hordes of forum warriors but in this case you're dead wrong and they happen to be right. WC51 is 100% broken. I doubt you'd find someone who plays the game and disagrees.

And the reasons mentioned for why its that are completely off.

Range and the fact cav rifles can ride it to make it USF M3 version, but superior against all but garrisons.

Health and armor are already normalized to kubel, if we'll get another balance patch, there is a high chance M3 will also be normalised this way.

Arty is completely pointless, because no one ever uses it nor gets it late game for it, mark target I don't know if I've ever seen it used, durability, again, is normalized for kubel already.

Cost? It comes out as worse unit then UC as it isn't even armed and people scream 5-10 fuel map hack is too expensive, how a unit that can exclusively cap wouldn't be?

Certain people with agenda make it sound like its 0cp luchs, when its unarmed M3.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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mr.matrix300
24 Aug 2020, 12:18 PM
#31
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:41 AMKatitof

And the reasons mentioned for why its that are completely off.


The reasons mentioned in the linked thread are valid and supportet by top players, so not completely off.




jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:41 AMKatitof

Arty is completely pointless, because no one ever uses it nor gets it late game for it, mark target I don't know if I've ever seen it used


It doesn't mean that it is pointless / doesn't get used just because you never saw it being used

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:41 AMKatitof

Cost? It comes out as worse unit then UC as it isn't even armed


Once upgraded it will be a better unit than a upgraded UC , while costing less than than a Upgraded UC. And it arguably also has a better price/ performance ratio when not upgraded than a non upgraded UC.

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:41 AMKatitof

Certain people with agenda make it sound like its 0cp luchs, when its unarmed M3.


And certain people with agenda try to make it sound as unbroken as possible


jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 11:41 AMKatitof

when its unarmed M3.


TIL. M3 can cap points, self repair, use arty / mark the target and comes at T0
jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






Playing with randoms





jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not









jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.







jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:11 AMCODGUY
I don't play this version of EZ mode very often because it's so boringly simple. But it is funny to see the Axis circle jerk with people complaining that the one faction with every crutch in the book is some how underpowered lol.







jump backJump back to quoted post18 Aug 2020, 04:14 AMCODGUY
The idea that the Jackson needed ANY nerfing is so laughable. It only serves ONE task, how dare it be good at that. If it were a good against infantry like the Panther, King Tiger, Panzer IV, Jagtiger, Elefant, I could see how it might be a problem and need a nerf but it's not







jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2018, 04:21 AMRocket
Haha the votes on this alone show the euro synphatheizers feel they just deserve to win. Anytime an okw nerf is brought up. Brain dead faction that skilless people can play and i refuse to play because of it.






jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.
Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.




jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 10:02 AMProtos Angelus


Ranked, I only play USF. Wouldn't be caught dead playing Nazis with some sort of record being taken





jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you, and wouldn't be surprised to be hit again, but I'm fed up with this bullshit and honestly, the sole fact that I'm not permad is what keeps me here having discussions about the game I like and yes, I do question myself why I still go back here to this free range insane asylum so often.



jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2020, 12:59 PMKatitof

I've talked with mods enough times, I know when I'm going overboard, I usually limit myself, but there is only so much tolerance I have for entitled, ignorant fucks like you




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KoRneY
24 Aug 2020, 12:18 PM
#32
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682

There are people better than you that actually play the game that have suggested nerfs.

There are people better than you that actually play the game and are on the balance team that have suggested nerfs.

Even the dumbest and most stubborn of animals can eventually recognize patterns, good luck.
/s
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thedarkarmadillo
24 Aug 2020, 14:14 PM
#33
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Alright children were veering of topic
#stalinwept
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Serrith
24 Aug 2020, 15:32 PM
#34
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 783

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 14:14 PMthedarkarmadillo
Alright children were veering of topic


we're*
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A table
24 Aug 2020, 15:47 PM
#35
avatar of A table

Posts: 249

Crew needs to go first, and its ability to capture points without a garrisoned infantry squad. Anything else after that is simply to put it in line. I would keep arty and mark target, as a personal prefference.
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Protos Angelus
24 Aug 2020, 17:25 PM
#36
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 15:47 PMA table
Crew needs to go first, and its ability to capture points without a garrisoned infantry squad. Anything else after that is simply to put it in line. I would keep arty and mark target, as a personal prefference.


The last thing this game needs is "putting in line". Already a lot of units have been recolored and reworked to be copies of another unit on the opposite side.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
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A table
24 Aug 2020, 17:37 PM
#37
avatar of A table

Posts: 249

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 17:25 PMProtos Angelus


The last thing this game needs is "putting in line". Already a lot of units have been recolored and reworked to be copies of another unit on the opposite side.


Ah yes, surely i must be striving for symmetrical balance when i imply that the WC51 needs to be adjusted.

It is not like it is unique and powerfull enough in its own right, both with the .50 upgrade or the 155 arty that can wreck pretty much anything standing or stunned. I don't recall any other LV in the game having similiar capabilities.
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thedarkarmadillo
24 Aug 2020, 21:21 PM
#38
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Aug 2020, 15:32 PMSerrith


we're*

Nice. Sorry I didn't bother the extra 3 clicks on my phone, I'll do better
#stalinwept
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