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russian armor

Rear Echelon very weak.

16 Apr 2020, 13:47 PM
#61
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2020, 13:31 PMLoren
I feel that volly fire is totally trash.
The penalty is so severe that it's almost a suicide ability.
abilities such as tactical advance have penalties, but this ability can be controlled to some extent during use.
But volly fire cannot do anything during use it.
I think it's a good idea to ease the penalty for this ability.

try using the ability while in garrison
16 Apr 2020, 16:39 PM
#62
avatar of Flyingsmonster

Posts: 155

I think the reason they are 25mp to re-enforce is to dissuade spamming them as an alternative to riflemen. If they were say, 20mp re-enforce again, spamming 4-5 of them at the start of a match would be somewhat viable again.

The RE is in a good spot though, just get them into a building at the start, or in green cover, and give them a BAR or a pair of zooks if you need AT.
16 Apr 2020, 22:23 PM
#63
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2020, 13:47 PMVipper

try using the ability while in garrison

And not when the RE is the only squad there. Volley will either draw fire from another squad letting them escape danger or it will not and allow RE to suppress them. I have a suspicion that REAR ECHELON troops are not supposed to fighting on the front all by thselves but will need more research into their stats and abilities to be certain.
16 Apr 2020, 22:31 PM
#64
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 498

I'm pretty sure Rear echelons are primarily there as a cheap option to replace lost vehicle crews.
16 Apr 2020, 22:40 PM
#65
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I think the reason they are 25mp to re-enforce is to dissuade spamming them as an alternative to riflemen. If they were say, 20mp re-enforce again, spamming 4-5 of them at the start of a match would be somewhat viable again.

The RE is in a good spot though, just get them into a building at the start, or in green cover, and give them a BAR or a pair of zooks if you need AT.
16 Apr 2020, 22:49 PM
#66
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

I'm pretty sure Rear echelons are primarily there as a cheap option to replace lost vehicle crews.


It even says in their description that they are "great for re-crewing weapons"

REs are exactly what they should be for a faction that gets to play with riflemen

And FPs are somewhat underrated imo. There's a reason the doc riflenade upgrade on REs is borderline OP. The weapon was already really useful when it was limited to fighting positions
17 Apr 2020, 18:04 PM
#67
avatar of Loren

Posts: 107

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2020, 13:47 PMVipper

try using the ability while in garrison


If you see your opponent using a volly fire, just go out of range for about a second and then come back. Then volly fire, which cannot be controlled, will be stopped immediately. If you're approached, you don't have to do anything. The volly fire will kill you at an incredibly fast pace, even when garrison.
17 Apr 2020, 18:16 PM
#68
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2020, 18:04 PMLoren


If you see your opponent using a volly fire, just go out of range for about a second and then come back. Then volly fire, which cannot be controlled, will be stopped immediately. If you're approached, you don't have to do anything. The volly fire will kill you at an incredibly fast pace, even when garrison.

I have stopped ST with RE and volley fire in garrison. The ability become stronger the longer it fires.
17 Apr 2020, 18:23 PM
#69
avatar of Loren

Posts: 107

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2020, 18:16 PMVipper

I have stopped ST with RE and volley fire in garrison. The ability become stronger the longer it fires.


That is what everyone knows. It takes more than 10 seconds to suppress the ST with volly fire. 10 seconds is enough to tear the garrison RE while moving even at maximum range. Volly fire suppresses SP when used, exactly 2 members die. Even when the opponent SP is hugging and moving, it melts very easily.
17 Apr 2020, 20:12 PM
#70
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Volley fire has it's use, but it's not something you will use in every game even though you have a rear echelon in each of them.


It's in a weird situation, similar as to when SP had Stun nades on vet 3. An ability you would want to use more frequently but the scenarios on which you can use it are extremely limited.
17 Apr 2020, 20:16 PM
#71
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2020, 18:23 PMLoren


That is what everyone knows. It takes more than 10 seconds to suppress the ST with volly fire. 10 seconds is enough to tear the garrison RE while moving even at maximum range. Volly fire suppresses SP when used, exactly 2 members die. Even when the opponent SP is hugging and moving, it melts very easily.

Don't expect 200pm to hold off 300mp alone?they are a support unit. The fact they used to be able to hold off 300mp alome is exactly why they were nerfed...
17 Apr 2020, 21:03 PM
#72
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947


Don't expect 200pm to hold off 300mp alone?they are a support unit. The fact they used to be able to hold off 300mp alome is exactly why they were nerfed...


Weren't they something like 160mp originally, so you could spam the shit out of them? I think I remember players (Barton?) building a horde of them, capping all over the map, and putting a bazooka on them late game and having it be difficult for even top tier players to deal with.
17 Apr 2020, 21:14 PM
#73
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884

Rear Echeleons are a USF unit...you wouldn't expect them to have any actual usefulness would you?

In all seriousness it's fine if they're crap, its fine if they want to leave them with that stupid useless ability that gets them killed even faster than they normally die. But why the hell is this a 200 MP unit?
17 Apr 2020, 21:54 PM
#74
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2020, 21:03 PMGrumpy


Weren't they something like 160mp originally, so you could spam the shit out of them? I think I remember players (Barton?) building a horde of them, capping all over the map, and putting a bazooka on them late game and having it be difficult for even top tier players to deal with.

That's correct. Back then volley fire also increased the rof of zooks making for incredible shenanigans.
17 Apr 2020, 22:38 PM
#75
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947


That's correct. Back then volley fire also increased the rof of zooks making for incredible shenanigans.


That's what I thought I remember. It does seem like they were a bit overnerfed, but they do what they need to well enough that it doesn't really create a balance issue. It seems like their cost and reinforce should be a little less. I haven't played much USF or Ost since the patch but I think they cost as much or more to reinforce as Grenadiers, especially after BP4. I'd also like them to be able to make normal mines, but OST can't either so maybe there is some asymmetric balance there.
17 Apr 2020, 23:26 PM
#76
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2020, 22:38 PMGrumpy


That's what I thought I remember. It does seem like they were a bit overnerfed, but they do what they need to well enough that it doesn't really create a balance issue. It seems like their cost and reinforce should be a little less. I haven't played much USF or Ost since the patch but I think they cost as much or more to reinforce as Grenadiers, especially after BP4. I'd also like them to be able to make normal mines, but OST can't either so maybe there is some asymmetric balance there.

I could see a reinforcement decrease but I wouldn't touch their price. Even the reinforcement reduction would have far reaching implications due to them being recrew dudes so it would even need to be a delicate touch. Anything that can dual wield rack weapons needs to be made cheaper very cautiously
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