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russian armor

Command Panzer IV

Does command p4 need a change?
Option Distribution Votes
52%
14%
7%
28%
Total votes: 29
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12 Apr 2020, 18:21 PM
#1
avatar of YRon²y

Posts: 185

hi :P

I feel like this unit got 'nerfed' by not making it a call-in.

Back in the day, this unit could be called in NP I don't even think you needed t2 tech.
Now you need the tech and build the building if I'm not mistaken.
You've also got brumbarr and ostwind(t2) wich both got a buff.
Therefore there's no point making it IMO.

I know we wanted the call-in meta removed but I don't think this tank was such a pain when it was a call-in.
It was rarely made in fact.

Maybe we can make it a call-in again BUT you need to have t2 tech? I don't think this unit is gone be made otherwise. I think that is quite clear atm.

I think that's a simple change that doesn't change the stats of the unit but still makes it have a use.

I would like to know what you think.
12 Apr 2020, 18:22 PM
#2
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2793

Give it 20% Damage Reduction and don't allow teammates to benefit from it. Then give its shells minimum penetration and more anti-infantry.

Balance team knows best though so expect all feedback to be laughed at.
12 Apr 2020, 18:24 PM
#3
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1493

Give it 20% Damage Reduction and don't allow teammates to benefit from it. Then give its shells minimum penetration and more anti-infantry.

Balance team knows best though so expect all feedback to be laughed at.


+100 I think the only reason it was nerfed to 10% was that it also helped teammates. But now, it's just an overpriced ostwind.
12 Apr 2020, 18:25 PM
#4
avatar of YRon²y

Posts: 185

Give it 20% Damage Reduction and don't allow teammates to benefit from it. Then give its shells minimum penetration and more anti-infantry.

Balance team knows best though so expect all feedback to be laughed at.


K, interesting. You think that will change people's opinion on using a brum or ostwind instead of cmdp4?

What do you mean with bottum line? I know they never probably never look here, but would just like to know what you guys think.
12 Apr 2020, 18:28 PM
#5
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2793

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2020, 18:25 PMYRon²y
You think that will change people's opinion on using a brum or ostwind instead of cmdp4?


Brummbar = heavy breakthrough AI vehicle that can be your army's spearhead

OstWind = medium AI vehicle with good anti air that's super effective at patrolling your flanks and bringing AI help where needed but can't fight at the front because everything pens it.

Command P4 = With this change you would need to have it at the front to benefit most from it and it would function alongside infantry at fighting enemy infantry as a support vehicle you'd have to protect from being focused so positioning would be big. It would also be useless at anti tank. Ostwind can hurt mediums from rear armour and Brummbar can damage armour pretty well if you micro the shot.
12 Apr 2020, 18:41 PM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8524 | Subs: 1

The unit has no reason for so many limitation. It should either have CP only and not tech requirement or tech requirement and not CP requirements.
12 Apr 2020, 19:02 PM
#7
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 81



Brummbar = heavy breakthrough AI vehicle that can be your army's spearhead

OstWind = medium AI vehicle with good anti air that's super effective at patrolling your flanks and bringing AI help where needed but can't fight at the front because everything pens it.

Command P4 = With this change you would need to have it at the front to benefit most from it and it would function alongside infantry at fighting enemy infantry as a support vehicle you'd have to protect from being focused so positioning would be big. It would also be useless at anti tank. Ostwind can hurt mediums from rear armour and Brummbar can damage armour pretty well if you micro the shot.

I agree with this completely. Especially with the tank cost being pretty much the same with the normal PIV.
I forgot, does it have armoured skirts from Vet 2?
12 Apr 2020, 19:43 PM
#8
avatar of Domine

Posts: 497


I forgot, does it have armoured skirts from Vet 2?



Yes it does.
12 Apr 2020, 20:54 PM
#9
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 81

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2020, 19:43 PMDomine



Yes it does.

What about it has them after Vet 1 instead? I bet it will die easily if focused properly, and it doesn't really have a punch, so...
12 Apr 2020, 21:08 PM
#10
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 536

Give aura more buff ,or more ability,or make it be commander P4.J
12 Apr 2020, 21:30 PM
#11
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1352 | Subs: 3

Haven't seen the CP4 in a long time. It got overshadowed by Jaeger Armor and Tiger commanders in 2v2 and was never that popular in 1v1 except as follow-up tank when spamming light vehicles. Here's some ideas to make it better:

A) Aura buff
Make the damage reduction -20% again, but only -10% for Allies. Current CP4 sadly doesn't even let a Stug survive an extra shot, which is mostly what's holding me back from using it. Could optionally go for an inbetween value like -15% DR (or -14% if you don't want Panther to survive 2 extra shots).

B) Timing buff
Remove the CP requirement so you can get it as alternative to the Ostwind. You'd trade AA and a bit of AI for better veterancy (skirts), better AT (good as LV hunter) and an aura that's not overpowering anymore.

C) Rework
This would obviously be the coolest solution, but also the most laborsome in terms of implementation and testing. You'd remove the aura and replace it with supportive abilities that fit a command tank. Some ideas of what it could get:
- Timed damage reduction aura that scales with veterancy.
- Ability to fire a smoke shell barrage.
- Ability fo fire an HE barrage (like Stug E).
- Recon plane overflight.
12 Apr 2020, 22:28 PM
#12
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4087 | Subs: 1

I like the idea of tuning it to follow the new design of officer units where they are good in their own right but make other units even better via targeted buffs. They are usable by a noob but made better by a pro. Force multipliers based on input instead of lack of input (aoe blob auras)
13 Apr 2020, 04:28 AM
#13
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 814

Buff the aura to provide acceleration and speed buffs, this combined with the 10% damage reduction will make it a vehicle to help in the "blitzkrieg" role allowing your medium panzers to close in vs allied TDs

If the damage reduction is just put up to 20 again you'll just see people camping it in a support weapon wall with double sniper. Which was the issue before it was nerfed.

So the mobility buffs with 10% DR would be much better, especially on maps like steppes for those deep flanks. The teamwork role of the unit would be kept too.
13 Apr 2020, 06:35 AM
#14
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3653 | Subs: 1

Buff the aura to provide acceleration and speed buffs, this combined with the 10% damage reduction will make it a vehicle to help in the "blitzkrieg" role allowing your medium panzers to close in vs allied TDs

If the damage reduction is just put up to 20 again you'll just see people camping it in a support weapon wall with double sniper. Which was the issue before it was nerfed.

So the mobility buffs with 10% DR would be much better, especially on maps like steppes for those deep flanks. The teamwork role of the unit would be kept too.


I like this idea, although I’d change the speed buff value. 10% of an acceleration is like 0.5 at the most. Not really worth mentioning a lot of times.
13 Apr 2020, 07:25 AM
#15
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 814



I like this idea, although I’d change the speed buff value. 10% of an acceleration is like 0.5 at the most. Not really worth mentioning a lot of times.


Truth be told I stole this idea off another twitch user. But a mobility buff to the aura would certainly fit the "mobile" theme of mobile defence.
13 Apr 2020, 07:45 AM
#16
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2560 | Subs: 1



Truth be told I stole this idea off another twitch user. But a mobility buff to the aura would certainly fit the "mobile" theme of mobile defence.


But will it fit the theme of Festung Armor? :P
13 Apr 2020, 07:49 AM
#17
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8524 | Subs: 1

C PzIV should simply be removed mobile defense. The unit has been nerfed to oblivion because of a singe commander dominating the meta at some point.
13 Apr 2020, 09:55 AM
#18
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2793

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 07:49 AMVipper
C PzIV should simply be removed mobile defense. The unit has been nerfed to oblivion because of a singe commander dominating the meta at some point.


As much as I agree, cp4 fits the mobile defense theme quite well.

Also as far as I recall the damage reduction nerf was because of teamgames where 20% DR on allied units was oppressive.
13 Apr 2020, 10:01 AM
#19
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8524 | Subs: 1



As much as I agree, cp4 fits the mobile defense theme quite well.

It might the theme well but is was bad from a design point of view having both AI and AT vehicle available with no tech was a recipe for trouble.


Also as far as I recall the damage reduction nerf was because of teamgames where 20% DR on allied units was oppressive.

C PzIV would never enter the scope if it was not for mobile defense.
13 Apr 2020, 11:10 AM
#20
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 186

It would be nice if the aura scaled with veterancy or got reworked in a way where it is useful from the start, i wouldn't change the raw performance too much as the main aspect for it should be the aura.
It shouldn't be similar to the CP5 for that matter but the command panther is a great example how the scaling aura could work.
As the straight damage reduction buff seems too strong if it work for teammates at the current timing/price tag it could be moved to a higher veterancy in the rework or into a timed ability if it is impossible to limit it to own troops.
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