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russian armor

T70

28 Mar 2020, 15:49 PM
#1
avatar of borobadger

Posts: 144

When is something being done about it? The damage this unit does is simply unfair, no other unit in the game can light a candle to it in terms of sheer devastation and ability to wipe squads.
28 Mar 2020, 16:12 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7

About 3 years ago.

At some point, after multiple nerfs, a unit becomes L2P problem.
That's the case of T-70.
28 Mar 2020, 16:28 PM
#3
avatar of Domine

Posts: 497

When is something being done about it? The damage this unit does is simply unfair, no other unit in the game can light a candle to it in terms of sheer devastation and ability to wipe squads.



It's funny, at this point, the only vehicle in the entire Axis roster that has a better AI, regardless of cost, is the Sturmpanzer IV.
28 Mar 2020, 16:29 PM
#4
avatar of borobadger

Posts: 144

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2020, 16:12 PMKatitof
About 3 years ago.

At some point, after multiple nerfs, a unit becomes L2P problem.
That's the case of T-70.


How can you L2P against a light tank that takes your squad down to half HP with one shot?
28 Mar 2020, 16:41 PM
#5
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2190



How can you L2P against a light tank that takes your squad down to half HP with one shot?


- dont clump on light cover
- use heavy cover cuz the T70 shots always get blocked by heavy cover
- if no cover is around, then just spread the models out a lot. T70 needs a long time to kill them then
- on large maps, stop spreading your infantry out too much once the T70 is here, until you have the counters out (Puma, p4, stug, ostwind)
- as Ost, 2x 222 is enough to stop a t70 from harassing you
28 Mar 2020, 16:50 PM
#6
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2636

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2020, 16:12 PMKatitof
At some point, after multiple nerfs, a unit becomes L2P problem.


wtf every single top 100 player thinks this unit is broken OP, what L2P problem???


- as Ost, 2x 222 is enough to stop a t70 from harassing you


That's not a good idea in 1v1. 444 is a massive investment and very hard to micro and get value out of it.

Ost doesn't really have mid game counterplay because the T70 is too mobile to die to a pak40 or shreks, so a lucky teller is your only hope. It's gonna get easier once Mobile Defense returns at least.

Agree on your other points though, they help a lot.
28 Mar 2020, 17:19 PM
#8
avatar of borobadger

Posts: 144

I beat 4res earlier, hes top 30 and he went double 222. I literally just drove up to both of them with my t70 and chased them both back to base and got the 2 kills. T70 is a complete joke.
28 Mar 2020, 17:23 PM
#9
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2190

I beat 4res earlier, hes top 30 and he went double 222. I literally just drove up to both of them with my t70 and chased them both back to base and got the 2 kills. T70 is a complete joke.


Ostheer gets Puma back next patch, so where is the problem
28 Mar 2020, 17:31 PM
#10
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7



How can you L2P against a light tank that takes your squad down to half HP with one shot?

By anticipating it and planting a mine/getting a PaK in advance, because OKW just blows it away with puma.


wtf every single top 100 player thinks this unit is broken OP, what L2P problem???

They also say soviet faction would fall apart without it and there doesn't exist a competitive BO at high level where it wouldn't be built.
28 Mar 2020, 17:44 PM
#11
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2550 | Subs: 1

I think the T70 is OP. I think without it, Soviet midgame would be quite bad compared to the other factions. Around this time other factions start decking out their infantry with weapon upgrades, and getting some nade-kills in. Soviets 7-man upgrade comes quite a bit later so they need more Oohmpf in their light tank to fill the gap. Maybe moving the 7-man upgrade to T3 (without the cost) and nerfing the T70 a bit is the way to go.
28 Mar 2020, 17:59 PM
#12
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2042



Ostheer gets Puma back next patch, so where is the problem


How is it good design to be forced into a specific doctrine just to counter a non-doctrinal mid-game unit?

That being said, I think the T70 is more or less fine as it is. It's the best light tank but the timing of it makes this mandatory because if it wasn't then why would it have to come that much later.

A slight AOE nerf wouldn't hurt but that's about all.


28 Mar 2020, 18:15 PM
#13
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1341 | Subs: 3

Your strongest bet against T70 as Ostheer is delaying it as much as possible with aggressive Osttruppen / Assault Grenadier / Infantry Doctrine play.

OKW has Puma.
28 Mar 2020, 18:18 PM
#14
avatar of Domine

Posts: 497

I think the T70 is OP. I think without it, Soviet midgame would be quite bad compared to the other factions. Around this time other factions start decking out their infantry with weapon upgrades, and getting some nade-kills in. Soviets 7-man upgrade comes quite a bit later so they need more Oohmpf in their light tank to fill the gap. Maybe moving the 7-man upgrade to T3 (without the cost) and nerfing the T70 a bit is the way to go.



Nobody wants to remove the T-70. It's just supposed to be brought in line with it's counterparts like Luchs, AEC and Stuart and also it's own cost of course, compared to which especially it is ridiculously overperforming.
28 Mar 2020, 18:18 PM
#15
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2412 | Subs: 1



How is it good design to be forced into a specific doctrine just to counter a non-doctrinal mid-game unit?


I would say forcing soviet players to get a t70 in just about every competitive game is also not great design
28 Mar 2020, 18:19 PM
#16
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2636

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2020, 18:18 PMDomine
Nobody wants to remove the T-70. It's just supposed to be brought in line with it's counterparts


It doesn't, making it into a Luchs is also a horrible idea. It just needs to not win games on its own as it does now.
28 Mar 2020, 18:20 PM
#17
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2550 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2020, 18:18 PMDomine



Nobody wants to remove the T-70. It's just supposed to be brought in line with it's counterparts like Luchs, AEC and Stuart and also it's own cost of course, compared to which especially it is ridiculously overperforming.


Sorry, I meant to say that without the T70 in its OP state, the soviet midgame would suffer a lot.
28 Mar 2020, 18:23 PM
#18
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2636

without the T70 in its OP state, the soviet midgame would suffer a lot.


That's not true. If you nerf the T70s acceleration a bit, slightly up vet requirements and maybe make it 75 fuel the soviet midgame would not suffer at all.
28 Mar 2020, 18:23 PM
#19
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 271

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2020, 18:18 PMDomine
Nobody wants to remove the T-70. It's just supposed to be brought in line with it's counterparts like Luchs, AEC and Stuart and also it's own cost of course, compared to which especially it is ridiculously overperforming.

Talking about performance of a unit without taking into account the timing is simply wrong. You should not compare a 6m unit to a 9m unit.

Aerafield provided pretty good advice.
28 Mar 2020, 18:42 PM
#20
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2020, 18:18 PMDomine



Nobody wants to remove the T-70. It's just supposed to be brought in line with it's counterparts like Luchs, AEC and Stuart and also it's own cost of course, compared to which especially it is ridiculously overperforming.


That's like saying obers need to be brought in line with conscripts or grens, because they are OP, ignoring completely their cost and timing.
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