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russian armor

Panther Accuracy

16 Mar 2020, 10:27 AM
#61
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2550 | Subs: 1



Completely disagree.

Provided you don't know what your opponent is going to build, an M36 is always the best choice.

Let's take your Ostwind/Sherman example. The Sherman does give more AI power, which is nice, but is vulnerable to any other OST vehicle from T3, or a panther, or most call-ins. Meanwhile, the M36 isn't vulnerable to those vehicles (when correctly micro'd).

As a result, the safest option is to preemptively build an M36, since this will invalidate any vehicle OST goes for, forcing them to either heavily invest in AT-focused tanks (STUGs, Pathers) or more heavily invest in AT-Infantry. For the former, the solution is simply more M36s, and for the later, your infantry should counter them.

The current Tiger HP gives OST a generalist solution to the problem, since it has enough HP to somewhat resist TDs, but also allows for the vehicle based AI that OST needs to survive late-game. Nerfing the Tiger's HP removes that, forcing the situation I described above.

/edit

I don't say this lightly, but the only solution to the current "60 TD Meta" is literally a rework of every tank in the game. We're currently stuck in a situation where either "60 TDs" are the obvious pick in every situation, or they're nerfed to the point where the game is unplayable. This needs to be fixed; and the only way to do this is by completely reworking how every vehicles relates to each other.


I don't agree with this. M36 is only the best choice if you are already winning the infantry game so you can harcounter the enemy armor when it comes out. However, if the game is even, or if you are behind, the M36 is not be best thing to go for as it will do nothing for you when it comes to winning the infantry game.
16 Mar 2020, 12:17 PM
#62
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 214



I don't agree with this. M36 is only the best choice if you are already winning the infantry game so you can harcounter the enemy armor when it comes out. However, if the game is even, or if you are behind, the M36 is not be best thing to go for as it will do nothing for you when it comes to winning the infantry game.


nope... because u can just win the Tank game ... and have time to recover ur inf losses.

as axis u cant do this..

u lose the inf game... ure Tanks facing M36 and u can stall for an ele or Jt.
16 Mar 2020, 13:13 PM
#63
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 418



nope... because u can just win the Tank game ... and have time to recover ur inf losses.

as axis u cant do this..

u lose the inf game... ure Tanks facing M36 and u can stall for an ele or Jt.


If you are losing the infantry fight as USF and you build a jackson, you have just shot yourself in the foot.

It's a matter of allocation of resources. If you spend the fuel for your first tank on a tank destroyer, there is likely going to be a lot of downtime where it isnt getting any value. If you instead buy a generalist, it will generate value by fighting infantry, and can still support against tanks.

You wouldn't buy a zis to counter a 222 for a similar reason. Given the time frame the 222 comes out, as a soviet you can I'll afford to spend 360mp on an anti tank gun which will be useful for the first 30 seconds, then have 5 minutes of downtime until tanks hit the field. It's just an inefficient use of resources.
But if you are swimming in manpower because you've been beating the pants off your opponent, well then maybe you have the mp to spare on an AT gun you wouldnt normally need.
16 Mar 2020, 14:17 PM
#64
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2550 | Subs: 1



nope... because u can just win the Tank game ... and have time to recover ur inf losses.

as axis u cant do this..

u lose the inf game... ure Tanks facing M36 and u can stall for an ele or Jt.


That's not how the game works. If you are behind in the infantry war, getting units that do nothing to win the infantry war do not somehow help you win the infantry war. If you are behind with USF you get a Sherman and hope you can get enough infantry kills with it to regain map control. If you decide to make a tank hunter, you basicly resign yourself to turtling because you don't have the army to cover a lot of ground - this used to be a viable playstyle with the no-tech heavy tank stall (turtling with AT guns instead of TDs), but it really doesn't work anymore now.
16 Mar 2020, 14:33 PM
#65
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7



nope... because u can just win the Tank game ... and have time to recover ur inf losses.

as axis u cant do this..

u lose the inf game... ure Tanks facing M36 and u can stall for an ele or Jt.


(Most)Tanks can't cap.
Having armored presence means nothing if it doesn't translate into resource advantage of fuel and muni.
17 Mar 2020, 07:29 AM
#66
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 292

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2020, 00:13 AMKatitof
Comet is not similar to panther in any other way then being late tech tanks above medium and below heavy. Its penetration is very sub par for the cost and its not primarily tank hunter. It doesn't get any defensive bonuses contrary to panther.

Are you willing to give up range, survivability or penetration for that bonus at vet2?


I don't think you understand the mechanics of this game, or how they work outside of a complete vacuum.
17 Mar 2020, 07:36 AM
#67
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 292


Panther already bullies meds and beats comets even in cqb duals. No reason to buff pen and accuracy even more on the panthers favor.

People are complaining about moving accuracy in the Jackson thread. So no it wouldn't be a popular move.


Lol, Good choice of comparison.

Comparing the Panther a dedicated Tank-Destroyer. To a medium tank.

Yes, it wins in duels, barely.

How does the Panther, which is billed as a TANK-DESTROYER, compare to other TANK-DESTROYERS?

Try for the first time on this forum ever, engaging your mental faculties, limited as they are.

INB4 - IRL PANTHER IS A TANK NOT A TD. This is COH2, we had this argument years ago. I argued for Panther to be a TANK, not a TD. We have reaped what was sown.
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