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USF Commander Reshuffle

3 Nov 2019, 16:23 PM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2864

USF currently has a few doctrines crammed full of so much stuff they can never really use all of it, and a lot of doctrines languishing behind.

The idea of this reshuffle of USF's commander abilities is to spread the love out more evenly across its many doctrines without changing the core idea of the doctrines.

I stuck to three rules: keep the changes as minor as possible, don't edit any abilities, and keep the playstyle of each commander roughly the same.
USF currently has a few doctrines crammed full of so much stuff they can never really use all of it, and a lot of doctrines languishing behind.

The idea of this reshuffle of USF's commander abilities is to spread the love out more evenly across its many doctrines without changing the core idea of the doctrines.

I stuck to three rules: keep the changes as minor as possible, don't edit any abilities, and keep the playstyle of each commander roughly the same.

v2.0


Airborne Company
Unchanged. There's not much you can do with this commander without editing the abilites.
  • Pathfinders
  • Airborne
  • .50 cal Airdrop
  • M1 ATG Airdrop
  • P47 Loiter


Infantry Company
This commander had three separate indirect abilities, which was a lot of redundancy. I swapped out the MHT for Rangers as a nod to CoH 1 and because they complement the doctrine really nicely. You could probably stick the MHT back in if you bundled Field Defences with the M1919.
You'd probably want to apply the max 1 LMG pickup restriction Riflemen and RETs have to Rangers. Unless you want triple LMG Rangers.
  • M1919 LMG
  • Riflemen Field Defences
  • Rangers
  • Time on Target Artillery Barrage
  • Priest


Armor Company
Armor Company is a well-themed and well rounded commander, so I left it alone.
  • Assault Engineers
  • Elite Crews
  • M10 Tank Destroyer
  • 105mm Sherman Bulldozer
  • 240mm Artillery Barrage


Mechanized Company
Mechanized was an overloaded commander, so I simply moved two abilities out. The 75mm Bulldozer is now exclusive to Urban Assault, and the somewhat redundant M3 went to Rifle Company.
  • WC-51
  • Cavalry Riflemen
  • Mortar Halftrack
  • Combined Arms
  • 76mm Sherman


Recon Support Company
Recon guzzles munitions like nobody's business, so it could probably swap out Raid Tactics or Cluster Bombs for the M10, which'd synergise nicely with the Greyhound.
  • Raid Tactics
  • I&R Pathfinders
  • Airborne Support Group
  • Greyhound
  • Cluster Bombs


Rifle Company
Rifle Company gets the M3 to use as support for Riflemen. It also swaps RET Flamers for RET Rifle Grenades: they serve the same role, but Rifle Grenades fit this doctrine's theme better. It's now like a cross between Mechanized Company and Infantry Company.
  • Rear Echelon Rifle Grenades
  • Rifleman Field Defences, Rifleman Flares, Fire Up
  • M3 Halftrack
  • White Phosphorous Barrage
  • Sherman Easy Eight


Tactical Support Company
This commander was pretty munitions heavy, so I swapped out the ineffectual P47 strafe for the MHT I removed from Infantry Company.
  • M1919 LMG
  • M5 Halftrack
  • Mortar Halftrack
  • Recon Overflight
  • Sherman Calliope


Heavy Cavalry Company
To stop Rangers being in three commanders, I swapped them out here with Assault Engineers. This smooths out the power curve of this doctrine a little: Assault Engineers don't scale into the late game like Rangers do, but they can repair the Pershing. I swapped out Combined Arms with 155mm Artillery, the light artillery strike that used to be in Mechanized.
  • Assault Engineers
  • Riflemen Field Defences
  • Light Smoke Barrage
  • 155mm Artillery
  • M26 Pershing


Urban Assault Company
Apart from swapping the RET Flamers and RET Grenades, I've left this commander alone.
  • Rear Echelon Flamethrowers
  • Rangers
  • Urban Assault Kits
  • Cover To Cover
  • Sherman Calliope
3 Nov 2019, 16:45 PM
#2
avatar of blancat

Posts: 637

nobody will play airborn company
ddd
3 Nov 2019, 16:57 PM
#3
avatar of ddd

Posts: 527 | Subs: 1

Airborn - even more of an inferior clone to recon company now

Tactical - recon + loiter = cancer

Rifle - nothing changed, still bad you just threw some shit abilities in

Recon - why even change one of few usf commanders that work nicely as is?

Heavy cav - pointless nerf, after last change ass engies are pretty ass

To sum it up: no, thanks

3 Nov 2019, 17:42 PM
#4
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2864

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2019, 16:57 PMddd
Tactical - recon + loiter = cancer


That's a fair point, even if it is about 300 muni.
3 Nov 2019, 18:10 PM
#5
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1806

I kind of like most of the reshuffled commanders because most changes make sense. But im a little worried of the impact in actual gameplay and how will main USF players receive such changes.
3 Nov 2019, 21:33 PM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6657 | Subs: 1

Some good suggestion, (some of them I have also made myself) and one not so good.
jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2019, 16:23 PMLago

Tactical Support Company
I replaced the ineffectual P47 Strafe with the skillplane loiter from Airborne. Hopefully it'll make this one a solid teamgame commander.


The combination of reckon planes and loiter is a killer combo that should be avoided.
Loiter planes in calliope commander is also a no from me since countering calliope is tough already and being able to protect them with loiter planes makes it tougher.
3 Nov 2019, 22:01 PM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6657 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2019, 16:23 PMLago
USF currently has a few doctrines crammed full of so much stuff they can never really use all of it, and a lot of doctrines languishing behind.

I agree, one should aim to make all comander of a faction of a similar power level.

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2019, 16:23 PMLago

Airborne Company

Recon Support Company

This 2 commander currently overlap too much and continue to do so even with these suggestion.

One could try:
Airborne Company
0.50/M1 merged into 1 ability or even making closer to the osttrupen ability. Since the USf tech redesign there is little reason for taking up 2 slots.

Beacon can become more important to the doctrine adding a cost to built and mini map info becoming a timed ability and allowing a another timed ability reducing the Target size of paras.

One could add a bombing run either similar to Luftwaffe incendiary or the IL-2 HE bombing run or an ability similar to mark Target.

Recon Company
With all the changes to this commander imo there are simply somethings that should removed:
Out goes I&R Pathfinders and Airdropped combat group

Riflemen can now upgrade with forward observation kit, takes 1-2 slots increase sight by 5-10 (if it 5 another 5 when in cover), 2 scoped carbines with higher long DPS (instead of critical kills) can now use flares, can now call-in 30 mu smoke barrage.

All officer can now call in mortar barrage.

Call in unit 'screaming eagles' representing the defender of Bastonge, basically support Paras as cheaper call-in unit and without the added MU cost of the pack howitzer. Once could also try lowering the number of entities to 5 and reducing the target size.

One could replace the raid tactics better suited for mechanized company with the m10 if there was really a
need for it.
With changes there would be less overlap

3 Nov 2019, 22:17 PM
#8
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6657 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2019, 16:23 PMLago

Infantry Company

Rifle Company

Imo
Infantry Company:
Ranger in infantry company fits the theme better than heavy Cav but they have to lose the 3 weapon slot.
3 LMG ranger would be broken. (they need to lose it anyway)

Imo it is the TOT that need to be removed from the commander and the MHT. Having a commander with SPG and an ability that can delete enemy howizter is simply bad design. To make things even worse the major can be used to spot for the TOT.

'Riflemen Field Defenses' should be renamed field defenses and most of the abilities move to RE, riflemen could lay wire and built fighting positions.

(Actually with the changes to USF tech one has to wonder if the reckon plane and barrage are actually necessary for the Major, imo it would be better if Captain got a grenade and major got the supervise ability).

Rifle Company:
I agree with bringing rifle grenades to this commander but I would rather move them riflemen (its rifle company after all). I have to guess that one can use the AT grenade animation for it.

Riflemen flares can be moved to Reckon

As for Easy8 I would rather have it replaced by dozer as an infantry support Tank
One can also try adding a new Anti tank training ability allowing riflemen to upgrade with 2 super bazookas to support the Dozer.
3 Nov 2019, 22:34 PM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6657 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2019, 16:23 PMLago

Armor Company

Heavy Cavalry Company

Mechanized Company

Armor Company:
Imo Armor company has the Dozer replaced by Easy8.

or/and the M10 replaced the an 76mm upgrade for Sherman.
The upgrade is free or has low cost removes the HE rounds but increases the penetration of AP round by about 20, serving as a stop gap to Easy8s.

Assault engineer have their price reduced to 250 but become 4 entities, they can upgrade either with 1 flamer or 2 Thompson +1 entity.
Heavy Cavalry Company:
Agree with removing rangers one could replace them or the 'Riflemen Field Defences' with m10 serving as a stop gap before calling the Pershing.

Mechanized Company:
I think that the commander should focus more into light vehicle play. For that reason I would like to see a different version of refit.
Unit can not be removed from the map and be refitted for new at a cost when tech requirement are met.
For instance:
WC-51 start with MG (range to 35 remove mark target and barrage) can now be refitted for an M3 or an ambulance
M-20 can now be refitted for greyhound
Stuart can now be refitted for an m10.

Another change that might be tested is 76mm Sherman become identical to stock Sherman at cost and stats but has HVAP rounds option (20-30 penetration) instead of HE.
3 Nov 2019, 22:44 PM
#10
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6657 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2019, 16:23 PMLago

Tactical Support Company

Urban Assault Company

Tactical Support Company:
As I mentioned before I am against the loiter planes.

Urban Assault Company
I agree with flamer for RE

Imo Urban assault kits should be removed from the commander.
The dozer upgrade is currently and abomination that overlaps with 105mm Dozer
Incendiary grenades should not be available to mainline and WP is an overkill

Simply replace the ability with 'Urban warfare training'.
Units get a bonus when fighting vs or from garrison, incendiary grenades are now available to Rangers.
3 Nov 2019, 23:03 PM
#11
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 131

While I don't have strong opinions on what the commanders should look like, I think taking out some of the versatility of heavy cav will be the first step towards more interesting choices.

There really shouldn't be an omni-doctrine like that in the game. Changing it will weaken USF a bit, but I think it'll balance out the recent RM buffs. I don't think it should offer any major improvements to infantry game like field defenses and rangers. It should focus mostly on late game power at the cost of early-game weakness.
3 Nov 2019, 23:10 PM
#12
avatar of Toxicfirebal

Posts: 32

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Nov 2019, 16:23 PMLago
USF currently has a few doctrines crammed full of so much stuff they can never really use all of it, and a lot of doctrines languishing behind.

The idea of this reshuffle of USF's commander abilities is to spread the love out more evenly across its many doctrines without changing the core idea of the doctrines.

I stuck to three rules: keep the changes as minor as possible, don't edit any abilities, and keep the playstyle of each commander roughly the same.

Airborne Company
I swapped out the P47 skillplane loiter for the cheaper Cluster Bombs. This commander guzzles so much munitions now that the airdrops cost muni that the P-47 was a bit much.
  • Pathfinders
  • Airborne
  • .50 cal Airdrop
  • M1 ATG Airdrop
  • Cluster Bombs


Infantry Company
This commander had three separate indirect abilities, which was a lot of redundancy. I swapped out the MHT for Rangers as a nod to CoH 1 and because they complement the doctrine really nicely. You could probably stick the MHT back in if you bundled Field Defences with the M1919.
  • M1919 LMG
  • Riflemen Field Defences
  • Rangers
  • Time on Target Artillery Barrage
  • Priest


Armor Company
Armor Company is a well-themed and well rounded commander, so I left it alone.
  • Assault Engineers
  • Elite Crews
  • M10 Tank Destroyer
  • 105mm Sherman Bulldozer
  • 240mm Artillery Barrage


Mechanized Company
Mechanized was an overloaded commander, so I simply moved two abilities out. The 75mm Bulldozer is now exclusive to Urban Assault, and the somewhat redundant M3 went to Rifle Company.
  • WC-51
  • Cavalry Riflemen
  • Mortar Halftrack
  • Combined Arms
  • 76mm Sherman


Recon Support Company
Recon guzzled munitions like nobody's business, so I filled Cluster Bombs's slot (which moved to Airborne) with the M10 TD: a speedy cheap tank destroyer to support the Greyhound fits the theme nicely. Recon still has a kickass offmap in the form of Pathfinder arty, so it hasn't lost much.
  • Raid Tactics
  • I&R Pathfinders
  • Airborne Support Group
  • Greyhound
  • M10 Tank Destroyer


Rifle Company
Rifle Company gets the M3 to use as support for Riflemen. It also swaps RET Flamers for RET Rifle Grenades: they serve the same role, but Rifle Grenades fit this doctrine's theme better. It's now like a cross between Mechanized Company and Infantry Company.
  • Rear Echelon Rifle Grenades
  • Rifleman Field Defences, Rifleman Flares, Fire Up
  • M3 Halftrack
  • White Phosphorous Barrage
  • Sherman Easy Eight


Tactical Support Company
I replaced the ineffectual P47 Strafe with the skillplane loiter from Airborne. Hopefully it'll make this one a solid teamgame commander.
  • M1919 LMG
  • M5 Halftrack
  • Recon Overflight
  • P47 Loiter
  • Sherman Calliope


Heavy Cavalry Company
To stop Rangers being in three commanders, I swapped them out here with Assault Engineers. This smooths out the power curve of this doctrine a little: Assault Engineers don't scale into the late game like Rangers do, but they can repair the Pershing.
  • Assault Engineers
  • Riflemen Field Defences
  • Light Smoke Barrage
  • Combined Arms
  • M26 Pershing


Urban Assault Company
Apart from swapping the RET Flamers and RET Grenades, I've left this commander alone.
  • Rear Echelon Flamethrowers
  • Rangers
  • Urban Assault Kits
  • Cover To Cover
  • Sherman Calliope


tactical support is now hilariously OP. Infantry now super strong in teamgames.
4 Nov 2019, 06:54 AM
#13
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 963 | Subs: 1

I still wish Rifle Company got Cav Riflemen, considering the doctrine is suppose to revolve around riflemen.
4 Nov 2019, 06:57 AM
#14
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 14002 | Subs: 7

I still wish Rifle Company got Cav Riflemen, considering the doctrine is suppose to revolve around riflemen.

You mean rear echelon company?
4 Nov 2019, 13:15 PM
#15
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2864

Updated based on feedback.

Recon and Airborne reverted back to their original states: I still think they're both too munitons heavy, but there's not much else you can do without editing the abilities.

P-47 Loiter moved back to Airborne, with the MHT taking its slot in Tac Support. Tac Support now restores the LMG/MHT combo.

Swapped out Combined Arms in HCav for the old 155mm artillery. A light off-map and a heavy tank is a pretty common combo, and Combined Arms is Mechanized's thing.
ddd
4 Nov 2019, 13:32 PM
#16
avatar of ddd

Posts: 527 | Subs: 1

Recon is fine, doesnt need change.

Airborn will remain lame commander as long as it has 2 infantry squads and 2 STOCK weapon drops.

Infantry changes are so pointless that even you noticed it would require some wonky restrictions. What for?

Heavy cav could use arty strike in place of terrible combined arms. But assengies are bad addition. Giving usf commanders abilities to lay mines is pretty big deal and there is already field defenses for that.

Tactical how much fuel do you expect someone to dump into halftrucks and rocket arty? Too much non frontline vehicles.

Mechanized you just nerfed it. Not a good "adjustement".
4 Nov 2019, 13:38 PM
#17
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6657 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2019, 13:15 PMLago
Updated based on feedback.

Recon and Airborne reverted back to their original states: I still think they're both too munitons heavy, but there's not much else you can do without editing the abilities.

P-47 Loiter moved back to Airborne, with the MHT taking its slot in Tac Support. Tac Support now restores the LMG/MHT combo.

Swapped out Combined Arms in HCav for the old 155mm artillery. A light off-map and a heavy tank is a pretty common combo, and Combined Arms is Mechanized's thing.

A good effort and I agree with some of the changes.

Things I disagree:
Current TOT in infatry Company is problematic.

Having Priest an off map that can finish off OKW truck/Lefh and stock recon extremely difficult to counter in the same commander is actually bad design. Priest is already difficult to counter and being able to delete Lefh should not be available.

Urban Assault Kits, the ability is problematic and should be removed.
Apart from the issues I have already mentioned the Sherman dozer upgrade is an abomination. The unit become superior to 105mm and one of the most cost efficient tank and in addition it can be exploited and be given to other USF players so that one can upgrade all the Sherman fleet.
4 Nov 2019, 14:15 PM
#18
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2864

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2019, 13:38 PMVipper

A good effort and I agree with some of the changes.

Things I disagree:
Current TOT in infatry Company is problematic.

Having Priest an off map that can finish off OKW truck/Lefh and stock recon extremely difficult to counter in the same commander is actually bad design. Priest is already difficult to counter and being able to delete Lefh should not be available.

Urban Assault Kits, the ability is problematic and should be removed.
Apart from the issues I have already mentioned the Sherman dozer upgrade is an abomination. The unit become superior to 105mm and one of the most cost efficient tank and in addition it can be exploited and be given to other USF players so that one can upgrade all the Sherman fleet.


Your suggestion for Infantry Company is good, but I'm going to leave it be for now. This thread is as much suggesting the concept as the specific changes, so I want to keep edits fairly minimal.

I left Urban Assault Company alone mostly because I hate it and don't believe I'd be objective with it.
4 Nov 2019, 14:50 PM
#19
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2065 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Nov 2019, 13:32 PMddd
Airborn will remain lame commander as long as it has 2 infantry squads and 2 STOCK weapon drops.


How is it lame that the commander offers the flexibility to skip one of the officer techs to get access to both support weapon, resulting in faster tank tech (and avoiding another line infantry squad, so that calling in Paratroopers is easier). The commander has good synergy, besides being a bit munitions heavy.
ddd
4 Nov 2019, 14:58 PM
#20
avatar of ddd

Posts: 527 | Subs: 1

Did you ever wonder why mg34 was removed from luftwaffe commander after okw rework? Airborn weapon drop is redundant, you wont need both so you are playing commander with effectively 4 abilities. Worth mentioning these are just STOCK weapons, not some upgrades like soviet commanders. AT gun drop would be enough.
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