Well i didn't see that one coming. the 222 is now actually worth it. also a nerf to the guard ai
The 251 change is good, 222 still cant help countering light tanks.
Ost still needs alot work to do. Light tanks are coming,soviet has T70 SU76 and M5,USF has Stuart,OKW has Puma and Luchs,while ost has poor 222 which can be 2 shots by M5+Quad.
Yeah ost has teller mines,pak 40,and schrecks, but soviet has zis3,Guards, and mines too. So why ost must choose defending units? Is that the purpose of this new patch???Relic said they wanna increase the number of viable strategies...lol
Then we always see ost goes to schrecks and pak 40 ,yes this is what relic want players to do. |
the 222 would need a massive buff to make it a threat to the stuarts/t70. The stuart have nearly 2x the hp for starter.
normally this would be a job for puma, but it's a doctrine unit. Unless Relic make the puma a default unit....
Maybe adding Puma to Building 2 and slightly increasing Building 2 cost would be fine. Even a Puma also faces Su76...At before what they need is waiting for the Stug or ostwind,but now the 2 units are just too late...
222? In fact its just a scortcar...Its not a light tank. The M5 can kill it in 3 seconds ...
251 needs some love. Comparing to the soviet M5+quad and Usf AA halftrack, it has no suppression,but still needs to unlock the flamethrower at BP 2.Just bad enough. When going to BP 2, no people will waste 120 munitions to buy that...A panzershreck PG would be better. |
I have read the next balance patch notes and I lol...
Relic says they want to increase the viability of light vehicle combat. So the T70/M5/SU76 will come out earlier than before by 40 fuel. And they increases OSTHEER Building 3 and Building 4 fuel cost(Stug and Pz4 will be late), then decreases USF T3 building cost(quick STUAT).
So the first T70 needs only 50+80+75-50=155 fuel cost the next patch. (Don't forget 50 fuel is given to soviet at the starting of the game.)
The first STUAT needs only 60+80-40=100 fuel. (Dont't forget 40 fuel is given at the starting.)
Then what does the Ostheer have that time? 222 and 251 will be the designed counters ??? LOL...
You wanna balance the game? Nope, you are destroying the game. You want people to build more light vehicles? Nope, OST players will never build 222 and 251 the next patch, because they must build pak40s (320 MP) first... Then make a quick StugIII or Pz4 to counter the allies light vehicles.
T70s are coming the next patch. Don't forget the Soviet Industry commander... As an ostheer player, I will never play ost the next patch... |
I have a feeling if they change it in anyway, such as remove the insta build in neutral territory, the commander will become non existent. They would have to add a buff, such as being able to produce units or become a FWD retreat point.
Agreed! |
In this patch 2 hmg42 can pin and kill everything near fhq while covering each other.
Oh, stop it. You playing 4v4, its completely different, and 1v1 arguments do not work there. t4 is easily accessible, panzerwerfer rush on 12-13m is easy, and you have luftwaffe supply anyway. And why you want to build p4 against fhq? WHY???
And its not like you need werfer anyway. As i said, double hmgs in correct positions, 1 gren, 1 or 2 mortars, 2 flamer pios to burn fhq in 5 seconds, some teamwork, you would win ONE OF THE MOST USELESS COMMANDERS THIS PATCH with ease. Congrats.
I just complain Panzerwerfer, just this unit, not countering FHQ using werfer. ye it should be another thread. |
+1
I've used and had FHQ used against me quite a bit in 4v4s and this pretty accurately sums up my experiences with it. Number one suggestion vs FHQ is to not rally all your forces against it and to not build too many mortars as doing either of those are a sure way to loose map control.
Ye I really learned. Too many motars will be beaten by Katyusha in 10 min... |
If you losing to fhq this patch you totally deserve it.
Btw i had 30+ kills in one barrage with shit panzerwerfer against fhq.
In this patch, that's no change for FHQ. So why can't I lose to FHQ?
You had 30+ kills because they are heavy blobs, this unit should do this thing. But... the tech cost is too expensive so my first unit won't be the werfer. I have no time to wait. I must build pz 4 or ostwind first. The problem is the ost tech cost. Katyushas come out even earlier than T34s. But werfer... |
The only automatch 4v4 that really has issues with FHQ is La Gleize. Both cutoffs have stone structures adjacent to the capture circle.
On every other map it can be avoided. Simply skirt around the HQ. On Lienne Forest, just ignore it. It is possible to hold the fuel while the enemy has a FHQ in the closest building (on both sides).
Steppes doesn't matter.
City 17 can be a bitch, but you just shift mid and take that VP, hoping that your buddies on the open side secured that portion of the map. If you are starting in the north there is no reason why the enemy should put a FHQ on the big building overlooking the fuel point.
Lanzerath is difficult, but the houses near the fuel points can quickly be brought down with concentrated fire. Often times it takes 3 or all four allied players to shut down fuel. That allows your teammates on the other side of the map to cap the right side, even harassing the enemy fuel if they are highly concentrated.
Your point about the Katyusha and Panzerwerfer isn't necessarily true. With the current tech system, Soviets can obtain rocket artillery much faster than Ostheer. If Pwerfer was T3 like it was in closed beta two and a half years ago (like the voice actors suggest) Soviet v Ostheer games would be significantly more evenly-matched.
Walking stuka is certainly helpful against FHQ. The trick is to push back enemy MGs so your MGs can move up to suppress and pin infantry around the FHQ. Drop incendiary and/or flank enemy mortars, forcing them to move.
FHQ isn't that difficult to beat in 4s. It just takes some lucky indirect fire rng, time, and pressure to force your enemies into one space so your teammates can cap around it.
Yeah it really depends on maps. It won't work on steppes, and works very well on La Gleize... They cuts off fuel point easily with FHQ.
Katyusha and panzerwerfer. The point is, things will be better if the werfer comes out much earlier. Ost really needs werfer's help to kill that heavy blobs of team weapons, just like Kats kill ost team weapons and OKW infantry blobs, right ? The artillery units are designed for this... But the werfer is too late... I haven't built this unit for a long long time. |
First of all, it's a 4v4 arranged team game discussion. Don't tell me the random 4v4 team game win ratio. The random team games and AT games are different things.
It has been talked so many times: RELIC you guys really sure the FHQ should be built in territories which are not owned or connected ?????? Ostheer can't build bunkers there, and OKW can't build bulidings but soviet can build FHQ >.< It can be very easy to limit the Axis resources income with pushing the FHQ on the enemy's key point. It gives huge resources advantage to Allies in early games. And then it leads to victory. The games end in 15 mins... The FHQ buffs Allies early games too much...
I'm not a noob so Allies fanboys don't tell me L2P, also my team mates are not noobs. We play as Allies too! AT 4v4 Ladder: Allies 29.
The FHQ works so well for arranged Allies players. Yes we counter them. We build motars. We build flame poineers. And we build motar halftracks (every game we take this spearhead commander just preparing for FHQ). We must face cons + riflemen spams, maxim spams, and motar spams, well well maybe 120 motars. They stand by the FHQ which gives them accurate buff and reinforcements. But they can't beat us quickly. At least we can hold the frontline for a while. In fact the battle is even, until Katyushas and T34s hit the field... Kats hard counter team weapons (BTW panzerwerfer is shit, why Kats so early but werfer so late and usless ???). T34s and Shermans hard counter infantry which have no armor support... Well as ostheer, I have even not teched up to T2... So as I said, the early resources advantage gives Allies quick armor rush. The front line will break soon. THEN GAME OVER SOON!!!
Don't tell me Walking STUKA, no fuel no armors. The game has been over when your stuka comes out. It is too late!
Discuss. |
The Katyusha is too much better than panzerwerfer, better range,less scatter, lower reload time, and cheaper tech cost...
The werfer is just S-H-I-T now. As an OST player, I never use it.
You must push the werfer on the enemy's face to fire more accurately. Just good design for an artilley unit lol. |