Initially this was posted in the October Balance Preview Feedback thread, but I'll put it here too for visibility and discussion:
The drop in performance of the Pack Howitzer compared to the Infantry Support Gun is huge and nonsensical considering the prices and targets between the two. In a field test with the auto-fire, the ISG suppressed an enemy squad at max range on every shot except one, until the squad's eventual death. The Pack Howitzer missed about eight shots before hitting which killing 3 Volksgrenadiers and suppressing the squad, then proceeded to miss about a dozen more before wiping the other two members. That is extremely inconsistent and impractical, and it must be amended before the patch goes live!
As for Range, the Infantry Support Gun is far superior to the Pack Howitzer. The Pack Howitzer has 80 range while the ISG has 100, the ISG gets 5 range at Vet 1 and 33% more at Vet 3 for a total of 140 Range. The Pack Howitzer would get 33% more at Vet 3 for 104 if it wasn't broken. But unfortunately it is and the Pack Howitzer remains capped at 80 range while the ISG gains nearly double that number. Even the Soviet Heavy Mortar has superior range (100) to the Pack Howitzer. This is also very ironic because the Pack Howitzer outranged the LeiG 18 by over twice as much in real life, in-game it's strange that a short barreled Infantry Gun has much better range than a Pack Howitzer.
Onto the Barrage and Cooldown stats, the Pack Howitzer again finds itself behind, not only firing less shots but also doing so less frequently:
Pack Howitzer
Vet 0: 3 shots, 60 second cooldown, 80 damage
Vet 3: 3 shots, 39 second cooldown, 160 damage
Infantry Gun
Vet 0: 4 shots, 30 second cooldown, 80 damage
Vet 3: 4 shots, 14 second cooldown, 80 damage
Vet 5: 8 shots, 14 second cooldown, 120 damage
The Pack Howitzer starts with double the cooldown of the Infantry Gun right off the bat, but while the Infantry Gun gets a 40% quicker recharge at Vet 3, the Pack Howitzer only gets a 30% reduction at Vet 3. Since cooldowns start once the first shot is fired, the Infantry Gun is fully able to barrage again immediately once the barrage completes, the Pack Howitzer has to wait about 20 seconds to barrage again (cooldown numbers on the list don't match the math, they were what I observed in-game by firing one round of a barrage, immediately cancelling it, and checking the timer ). At Vet 4, the Infantry Gun gets to fire 8 shots while the Pack Howitzer never fires more than just 3, but that's Vet 4+ and is supposed to be superior, so I'll concede that point. Reguardless I think both barrages should be 5 - 6 rounds, 3 is too little.
Lastly, the projectile lowest angel increased from 10 to 40 does not apply to White Phosphorous Barrage. |
It seems like since relic removed the rifleman ability that lets m1919s suppress then everybody is hopping on the "remove x unit/item/ability" as a balance move. Case in point... the sherman firefly.
People were complaining "remove ___" way before that happened, and they do it for anything, because they're whiners. On official forums there was more support for removing the M-45 than there was for buffing it, disgusting. That said, I have yet to see anyone ask for the Firefly to be removed? |
What is the reinforcement cost for the vehicle crew, is it cheaper than RE?
No it's 30. |
Have not tried the balance patch but I still think commandos will be awesome for surprise attacks and flanking support weapons. They will probably not be at all viable as frontline troops now that their damage goes way down which I am OK with.
I did test them, they're not bad but I don't suppose they're excellent either. From an ambush they still beat Panzergrenadiers with only 2 model loses, as opposed to no model losses. StG Obersoldaten are no longer easy targets though, and they cannot be ambushed because their IR Rifles detect the Commandos forcing the British to either force an attack and lose, or retreat. They will lose to Vet 3 Panzergrenadiers, but I don't consider that a bad thing because wiping Vet 3 Panzergrenadiers with ease is bullshit  |
bad example here
the t34-76 is just a nerfed version of the sherman wwhile costing less,there is nothing unique to it other then dying to anything that has AT fire arms.
Ah I see, asymmetrical balance is only good if it's the way you like it, right? You have no argument, you can't argue against the T-34 being different and complain that Armies are becoming too similar, that's hypocritical. The T-34 is asymmetrical because it's very cheap, you can amass them. In regards to the Red Army, Stalin once said "Quantity has a quality all its own." and that's what makes the T-34 unique to the Sherman or Churchill. |
Different for the sake of different doesn't make something good. Want a good example? Look at the T-34/76, nobody uses it, everyone complains about it. Why? Because it's different, it's not a Sherman or a Cromwell. |
I don't know why no one has ever brought this up until now. I 100% agree with this. Hell, I would even withdraw my units only for the popcap, let alone resources. +1 to you sir.
People have brought it up lots of times, it always gets shot down though, that's why it's not brought up often. The Singleplayer campaign had the ability to "reassign" units which had the same effect except you could do it to Infantry and you got no refund for it. |
Hello, I would like to talk about ostheer. Currently ostheer infantry has fallen behind. Due to Infantry sections being very good with great vet and abilities, riflemen and cons also get elite infantry levels of received accuracy at vet3. Yes yes scaling and what not but this is a bit dumb over lower reinforcement decrease, so I have found a way to make that seem ok.
Not sure about having it as a T4 upgrade, I'd say maybe have Vet 2 or 3 increase the squad size like it does for Rear Echelons.
On a side note, I would like to hear opinions on allowing g43s to be paired with lmg42s again. Seeing how lmgs and g43s have been nerfed, the fact that brits and USF have great infantry and veterancy, and dual equipping, and the fact that g43s are doctrinal.
This sounds fair. USF can dual equip M1919's and Brits can dual equip Brens and get Scoped Rifles with Vet. I do think they should disable Rifle Grenade if the guy with the Kar 98 dies though, how do you fire them without the proper rifle?
To keep up, I would like soviets to have a non doctrinal dp28 upgrade for conscripts upon reaching t4 that comes by default similar to coh1 riflemen bars because I realize the dp28 is not the best machine gun and also I don't want to clone ostheer, I also consider this a much better way of making them better because its not a straight stat buff, a vet buff, or something passive.
I'm not sure about this idea because it makes the DP 28 inconsistent with the Guard's version. I would say make Conscript PPSh's a stock universal upgrade, and replace them in Commanders with G43-style SVT-40's. |
You got that from Duffel Blog didn't you? The version with the A10 Warthog is amazing.
It's actually an old 4chan copy+pasta satirizing otherkin. |
sherman crews should be 5 mang, aaht 3 mans ,M20 2 meinz,Stuart 4 man, E T C.
I'd like this because it's more realistic, although I'd keep AAHT and M20 at 3 so they can lose a man and still recrew like other crews can. |