Ya that 150 MP was a critical error and lost me the game - my bad.
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Thread: Me vs Meta - a sorry state21 Aug 2016, 04:21 AM
Thread: Me vs Meta - a sorry state21 Aug 2016, 03:04 AM
Went 4x Volks and proceeded to not be able to build anything else except tech as I slowly died to mgs and t70 and mines.
Goddman this game is so balanced.
Thread: Comprehensive OKW List (all units)21 Aug 2016, 02:05 AM
Jump back to quoted post21 Aug 2016, 01:51 AMSmiling Tiger
You're right, ill fix it, I did have the halftracks mentioned, but I forgot to give them their own header cuz they're so bad
Thread: Comprehensive OKW List (all units)21 Aug 2016, 01:22 AM
Sturmpioneer - good early unit and the only unit capable of sweeping mines and carrying Panzerschrecks. While it's good early-mid game, unit performance starts to fall off pretty quickly with lack of strong vet abilities and contending with vetted Allied infantry. Mostly relegated to sweeping duties with the occasional Pschreck/flamer if you decided to get more than your starting squad. The abundance of mines vs brits and soviets means skipping a sweeper is a good way to lose the game.
Overall, good. But poor unit design means it gimps other parts of your army (like the Panzerschreck nerf).
Volksgrenadiers - pretty "OK" unit throughout the game. STG 44s allow them to gain an edge in 1v1 engagements (though forever preventing them from picking up weapons). However, since German units are generally bad at solo duties, it's better to blob them up and take decisive engagements than to make them 1v1 duelists. Prohibitive munitions costs for both grenades and Pfaust makes these guys your go-to munitions sink; 35 muni Pfasut is a killer to your economy.
Good. They have pretty good vet abilities meaning they scale well into late game.
Kuebelwagen (almost forgot this guy!) - not a bad early game unit. Decent harass damage but it's most powerful use is pushing units around for your unit to close in and win. Doesn't last long though as more powerful guns and AT 'nades come online. Useful for capping points.
MG 34 - This guy really has problems. It's suppression isn't bad, per se, but the lack of damage output is what really makes this pick almost worthless. While able to suppress squads in the open pretty well, it really struggles to suppress squad in cover. Often, squads will be just outside of firing arcs trying to flank it. And with the 34's bad targeting and slightly lower suppression values, this often translates into a squad getting through the flank and forcing a retreat (less you risk giving the allies a free MG). This is in direct contrast to other MGs in the game, where a short burst of fire will often suppress the squad even if they manage to crawl outside the arc, preventing flanks, and winning engagements much more effectively on their own.
Rakatenwerfer - Another gimicky OKW unit. It's retreat and cloak are suppose to differentiate from your normal AT gun in exchange for weaker firepower and no green cover. However, the raks will often die on retreat (modifiers be damned!) and with their piss poor target acquisition, means they have to wait 1-2 extra seconds to fire that other at guns do not (which is way more crucial than it sounds). When the name of the game is Company of Light Vehicles, all it takes is to skirt around the edge of this AT gun or simply run right up to it to kill the weak crew, it does it's job of pushing back tanks very poorly.
T2 - Med truck.
200/25 for base truck. Another 100/15 for medics (cool, 300 mp /40 fuel just to heal my squads). The IR halftrack is a gimick and for team games only.
ISG - Another unit trying to achieve asymmetrical balance but coming up short to it's classic counterpart (mortar). It's lack of building damage means even a full barrage onto a house will fail to effectively dislodge whoever is in there - it's range and A-move power are it's only saving grace. Often times tho, it fires too slow with too little impact against the multiple MGs OKW likely face - often with a single MG squad able to take a full barrage before it needs to retreat. Once again, a direct contrast to mortars with their faster rate of fire able to force units out of zones, fast. It's range lets it slowly, albeit safely, plink away at squads throughout the game.
Flak AA HT - The Flak AA halftrack is far too weak for 55 fuel and will likely die trying to spearhead attacks (which OKW crucially need to punch into gun lines). It's use therefore relies in a back-line super MG, but with the disadvantage of being easily pushed back by 1 at gun (or a unit in a house). Overall, a huge waste of 55 fuel imo.
IR Halftrack - Useless- never build this only you are so far ahead of your opponent is doesnt matter.
T3 - Mech. Command.
While the price on this truck and units are not too prohibitive, the fact that it's usually a choice between this and the med truck mean you have some critical fuel choices to make as OKW to just simply tech (compare this to other tech options, such as captain tech unlocking a squad and critical units). This truck's units are more or less superfluous. You can spend time to tech up to this for a luchs or puma, which are not bad vechs by any means. However, this tech effectively = 2 squads that can start to be build immediately and fighting (this fits the meta more - where, due to a lack of allied teching preventing them from pushing early game, they can flood the field with effective units and immediately go for kick ass light vechs). So teching for T3 means your infantry will often be outnumbered and soon to face an early light vech
The light vech meta makes the puma an intuitive choice. Problem is , unlike the Stuart, T70, or even the AEC, the puma struggles significantly in dealing with infantry, meaning your opponent can make infantry pushes into your low-count squads and force the puma off quite easily and take the map. It's expensive at 320/70, meaning you have to sacrifice a lot of time and fuel just to get this one unit out that isn't even a sure deal to defeat a light vech anyways, what, with the hordes of AT-nade ready infantry running around. Even 1v1 (dueling other vehicles), the puma isn't dominate in such match ups.
Probably the best unit out of this tech. Like the t70, it can effectively fly across the battlefield forcing away infantry unit from territory and make pushing really hard. Problem is, unlike the t70, it struggles with dealing with light vechs with it's low penetration and won't be nuking squads down like the T70's infamous model drop powers.
Walking Stuka -
Probably gets a lot more mileage with the plethora of immobile targets in team games (which it excels at taking out). However, 1v1s is a much more mobile game and so landing good hits with this 100 fuel indirect fire vech makes it a risky choice at best. It's most effective use seems to be supporting other vechs by taking out AT gun lines (meaning it's a late game unit and often a poor choice early game).
T4 - Flak Truck
This is what all OKW players dream of getting. Unlocks your only other available assault infantry (Obers) and locks down the surrounding area. It can be pretty easily taken out by indirect fire, so the safest course is to park on a cutoff near your base to keep it safe, yet effectively securing zones.
It costs 120 fuel, meaning after you finally feel safe in planting this on the map and after your infantry count stabilizes, you can try to start pumping out it's tanks.
Obersoldaten - Your elite infantry squad. These guys are good at killing the hordes of infantry, have strong vet abilties, and have neat abilities. However, they can be pretty easily countered with a well placed MG or with about any vehicle. Since OKW seem to have such a manpower shortage from teching, it's hard to fit these guys in fast while still maintaining good anti-tank abilities.
Excellent tank destroyer. Has good pen and rate of fire and a good cloak ability. However, it's lack of mobility means it struggles to find shots vs light vechs (Especially since most maps are littered with shot blockers), which is the main struggle in keeping OKW infantry from breaking out.
Has good mix between anti infantry and anti tank capabilities. However, the PIV is somewhat fragile and expensive (150 fuel) - meaning this is gonna be your only tank for quite awhile. And probably your first major tech choice, it needs to have a lot of work done to be an effective purchase.
Like the ostheer panther, it combines a solid gun platform with the ability to slowly force off inantry with it's (weak) pintle MG upgrade. However, the panther suffers from an extreme tendency to miss on the move vs tanks (which I think is really weird, considering it's design) and with it's slow rate of fire, every shot counts. This effectively makes the OKW panther a PAK 40 on wheels - which is good - but still leaves you vulnerable to infantry pushes. At 520 MP and 200 fuel, it simply doesn't perform well enough to justify its costs. But since this is OKW's only option of a durably tank short of a KT, most players still opt to get it.
Call ins -
King Tiger - Basically OKW's only win condition after building all trucks. It has superb accuracy vs all targets, good range, good armor, and a not too slow speed. Basically, you want this tank every chance you get. Suffers from a rather predictable way to counter it (mass AT guns) which may leave you unable to push well with it.
Super meta and good, can't think of any way these guys are bad.
Fallschrimjaeger - The squad has good fire power and accuracy and even a 25 muni Pfaust (as opposed to the 35 muni on the volks). However, being doctrinal at high CPs and at 440 MP, this usually leaves you open to, you guessed it, a light vech ruining your day. Thier high cost and lack off effective doctrinal abilities mean going for them is often not so worth.
Once again, super meta and super good and fills in a gap of OKW teching at a critical time in the game.
Good - excellent.
Flame Hetzer -
Basically a worse ostwind - it has a shorter range then you would like which leaves it quite open to counters. At 100 fuel, it's not cheap and it's lack of any AT capabilities leaves you open to vech rushes.
Sturm Offizier -
Good if expensive unit. Has good but situational abilities for muni sinks.
PanzerFusiliers - Also a good unit and their extra member makes them ideal for pushing into territory (although their rifle AT 'nade takes a very long time to go off).
JagdTiger - Very niche and expensive unit. Generally better to go for other vechs than to waste all your resources on a unit that can only hit vehicles.
Goliath - Gimick unit. Unlikely to actually hit any targets due to its loud noise signature, slow speed, and 100 muni cost. Only use to ambush squad by staying stil (and even then, a good player will spot it before you get to close).
Sturmtiger - Not a bad unit at causing some pretty game-winning damage by wiping squads and weapons teams (and the occasional tank with a good/lucky shot). Unfortunately, it comes with a doctrine with a pretty useless roster of abilities compared to the other options of call-ins available. And due to the OKW struggles early game, this doctrine definitely doesn't help with that.
Command Panther - Call in unit so automatically good. Unfortunately, comes with a hard to use doctrine that lacks real pushing power. It works well with IR STG obers but at the same time wants you to save fuel (no flak truck) to save for Command panther. It's passive ability is hard to make use of in 1v1 without a lot of friendly tank, but it's mark target ability is pretty good (like soviet's). But it's still a panther that's only a little more expensive than the base panther so a solid unit if you wanna go use a not so good doctrine.
- but in general, Panthers kinda suck (compare it to comet or pershing)...
EDIT: List of emplacements (doctrinal):
Bunker - Very good if placed correctly. Its superior suppression to the 34 means unit often get instantly suppressed unless they are immediately in heavy cover. And as a muni-floating faction, it's not too hard to find 60 muni to upgrade it.
Flak Emplacement (2 man) -
Suffers from bad rng and clipping terrain non-stop. It's damage isn't terrible, but because non of the shots ever hit, doesn't perform as a good turret and will often fall into the enemy's hands quickly since it can be decrewed relatively easily.
Pak 43 - Despite it's manpower cost, it's atually quite a good AT gun covering important Anti-infantry units and vechs from vech flanks. It's superb damage means it often 2 shots most tanks and even 1 shots some lights. It has some short range, but with the advantage of firing through shot blockers.
LeFH - Like all arty, they're prohibitive cost of 600 MP often leaves you having no units or no tanks if you want this baby. While not a bad unit by any means, it's cost leaves it hard to fit into a closely fought game. Another unit made useless by team games, but can fulfill niche roles every now and again. Not bad at bombarding enemy base for squad wipes due to number of shells and rate of fire.
I think I got everything and I think my analysis of the units are pretty accurate. With a combination of sub-par weapons teams (raks, ISG, MG 34) and sub-par light vechs (Puma, luchs) - okw often get bottle necked into trying to do wayyy too much with their volks in countering every allied unit until they get an expensive tank out, which puts them in a pretty disadvantageous position early and especially mid game.
As a note: playing countless OKW games, I find that it's really hard to support 3x Volks build (never mind 4x) and still try to tech quickly to keep up with Allied tech (and to just heal your dudes!). You either go for rak and skip LeIG or vice versa leaving you with something like 4-5 squads. It seems like every other faction doesn't struggle at all with getting more units out. Can any1 anecdotally confirm that OKW bleed more than a squealing pig to the slaughter?
Bad = worthless.
OK = underpowered, but not worthless (useable)
Good = balanced. Efficient.
Excellent = should probably build this every game.
Thread: CHINAMAN INVADED SOVIET FIELD Hospital20 Aug 2016, 05:06 AM
In: Scrap Yard
Thread: August 18th Update18 Aug 2016, 23:30 PM
I kinda like the OKW skins
Thread: Sniper cloak18 Aug 2016, 19:12 PM
Jump back to quoted post18 Aug 2016, 11:27 AMCruzz
Really? I could've sworn that re-cloak speed was quicker under heavy cover than under light cover as a "feature" they introduced when they released this game.
Thread: Ban Barton & Price For Harassing Shadowwada18 Aug 2016, 06:40 AM
But... Shadowwada is a prominent member of this community...
Is it arrogant if its true?
Thread: Ban Barton & Price For Harassing Shadowwada18 Aug 2016, 03:20 AM
There's a difference between mindless trolling and intentional harassment - a difference both twitch and Relic have addressed in the past.
Thread: Sniper cloak18 Aug 2016, 00:50 AM
It's only this quick in heavy cover - but if you are fast enough on the click and have your sniper facing the direction, I believe its possible to get a counter snipe off even if the sniper is in heavy cover.
That being said, it is tough to do.
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