Read this thread then had some ideas:
If you get lucky enough to pick up an LMG, that's obviously a great squad to use stand your ground on, or alternatively if you have an ally who is able to equip your squad with a weapon (e.g. SVTs).
You could also merge cons into this squad with weapon upgrade and stand your ground whacked on.
You could also do this quite easily with your flamer engie. Rush him up with a few cons, stick stand your ground on it, enemy's best option is probably to try move out of flamer range, given you can't move. But everyone's natural reaction when flamer is close is to focus that unit, so it could be interesting.
Fight to the death basically speeds up engagements, same amount of increased lethality and vulnerability. So you want to use that when you would win the engagement anyway, but this will let you win it faster, and hence more chance of getting a wipe.
Also, using fight to the death will likely draw fire to the unit it's used on seen as it is both more dangerous and more vulnerable, but this is drawing fire off the officer who is also a decent combat unit and would likely be getting focused first otherwise.
I had similar thoughts but was more thinking with SMG weapon drop with Fight to the death, most inf will melt especially if the Penal is Vet2/3 it could also be used with Soviet reserve but I feel SVT conscripts are better than PPSH conscripts. I think it mostly comes down to play style, with NKVD tactics most go several penals with commissar so the SMG would be a welcome wiper especially if placed in a retreat path. The Airborne player can stick to SVT conscripts and provide AT support so that Penals can focus on assaulting. |
If you could last for 45 mins against Vonivan... hats off to you
I think he was playing with LAG cuz I think I got 3 wipes on him before he turned it up on me. Him going for tiger first really threw a wrench in my T2 back tech KV8 strat. Forgot tiger is easier to get out vs KT. |
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Aren't SVT a downgrade from what the rangers come with now stock? The upgrade would literally have to be X3 PTRS or X3 LMG, maybe PPSH with armor upgrade so they become USF Shocks.
PPSH upgrade for Rifles would be worse than what conscripts get so it would have to be really cheap to take both slots. Maybe give Sprint and Molotov also to make it worth it. |
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Still messing around with Terror Tactics thought I played fairly well, his Jp4 caught me off guard which literally buried me. |
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I have been having a fun time playing with back tech, seems easier to pull off vs OST since they need to tech up to have access to panther. With good MP preservation I have been able to get AT gun along with KV8 out as first tank. With some good hits from infantry or T70 I can get a few wipes during chase down. The main issue I am having is my At gun play is quite weak, lost me several matches even though I outplayed other player. Also I suck with SU85, so to combat my lack of micro throwing down mines on obvious flanks helps me reset. I am starting to think with good pressure and double AT gun maybe Katy should be next unit. I can easily get some chase down wipes along with a way to deal with AT walls without having to expose KV8.
For this game skipped scout car, went engi/x3 Penals. With the MP saved I rushed out Airborne and was able to get T70 at a good time without having to hold on reinforcing or waiting around.
Since he skipped making a LV I built an MG first to slow him down around the middle while harrasing both edges of map.
AT guns did good job of zoning him out while KV8 lurked around and forced some retreats.
Managed to get several decrews but was unable to take advantage of destroying AT guns. Would probably have closed the game out earlier.
Whenever he managed to get something going I used Fear Propaganda to force retreat or allow me to come in and beat up his infantry if he wasn't paying attention.(I think it can cause a rec acc nerf)
I made 2 T34 that didn't do much. This happens to me quite a bit, I think If i switch one out for katy and play a more focused area of map I can create more oppurtunity for wipes. |
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Played a couple games using this commander with T1 back tech and it is working fairly well, my main issue is I am used to skipping LV so i have a hard time not calling in Airborne when I can save for T70 to rush it out. I even had a game against some guy named Peanut Pouya who shitted on me before and I had him on the ropes but my micro got the best of me.
Ost enemy went with mg skip gren build into PG, I went with engi/clown car/penal x3.
Early game kind of goes my way but I make a PTRS penal expecting him to make a scout car but he does a PG rush so I am left AI short.
He slowly starts to push me back with his INF army- 3 Gren/2 PG/1 Jaeger. He eventually upgrades both with Shreks.
I get my T70 out, I dont get any wipes but I do decent health damage. He plays really defensive with his infantry which allows me to get most of map.
His P4 hits the field close to when my AT gun does so I am prepared, he did a T2 skip which becomes important later.
He is beating me pretty well but never delivers knock out blow, I eventually get KV2 out which keeps me in game since he retreats on sight.
He hits me with arty barrage, doesn't do too much damage but have to try not to blob. I eventually get T34 out and he gets a Panther
He wipes 2 of my Penal squads which is cool I guess.
Game is going his way but that changes pretty soon, I make him pay for not being aggressive.
I wipe 2 grens back to back, kill his panther while he is having a pathing or brain fart, and kill his P4. I also dive my T34 to kill his arty and lose it to shrek blob.
Game has swung heavily my way with point starting to even up if not go my way. However, it gets moar betta.
He catches my T34 with his shrek blob almost kills it but doesn't get last volley off for what ever reason. However both squads are really low health and model.
I chase them down on retreat with KV8 and wipe both while really beating up his other infantry. Game is pretty much over at this point. He plays until the end but I now have superior inf, tanks and AT.
GG
The fear propoganda does help out a lot when you can't spare infantry to defend a side. Since he played very mobile I didn't need to save for bombing run so I could be very spammy with propoganda. Also KV8 defended by AT guns has made me fall in love with this tank again. I hated it with my NKVD strat since Penals alone cant really protect it but AT guns let you fall back safely.
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I have been wanting to try a different strat for a while now with a t2 back tech, saw tight ropes video with the KV8 and decided to try something similar since I can't ever seem to get the KV8 to pay off. I went with Terror Tactics since I feel LMG airborne trade better in most situations and Assault Guards kind of suck until they get Vet.
I started with engi/clown car to try and cap and see what opponent is doing. I catch his sturm out of cover and get a model drop, we trade until my Penal arrives so I pull back to repair and eventually rush to my gas to protect it from decap. I saw his SWS truck so he is mostly likely rushing 221. He attempts to attack my scout car but accidently shows rear and I chase him down and kill it. Game is going my way so I want to inflict as much early bleed as possible so I rush his VG with clown car, I get multiple model drops but he kills my car.
Early game went as good as I could hope so I cap most of map but I assume he is going to get a Flak out.
I avoid getting PTRS since I want to keep AI up and rely on T70 for AT until I get my AT gun out. I use my muni on a Airborne Guard instead I catch a MG out of position and steal it but his flak shows up and lets him claw map back, he does a great job playing aggressive with it so I really need T70 now. I push hard on right side of the map waiting for his flak to show up, I see it and rush him hard, we both lose it but I feel I won the trade since now my infantry can roam free. I am floating MP now and build T2 and get AT gun out which worked out great since he rebuilt Flak. I win most engagements and keep his Flak at bay with AT gun.
My army is pretty much what I want at this point - 2 engi/3 Penals/2 LMG Guards/1 AT gun. I also have stolen MG which has done great for me so I decide to make KV8 and it does a great job of inflicting infantry damage. I push him hard several times and use fear propaganda to get me out of binds. Double engis get me back in the fight quick and my infantry is slaps his around. I assume due to earlier MP loses he is struggling to save for Obers and wants to concentrate on countering KV8. He eventually gets out P4J, but I now have 2 T34. I push his Schwerer and flak since they are annoying me, he rushes to defend with P4J but he cant get enough support since my KV8 is keeping the rest of his army occupied. I trade 1 T34 for his P4J and using bombing run to kill his Schwerer and he calls it quits.
Thoughts:
It was pretty fun to back tech, I feel like it really caught him off guard. His 2nd Flak would have done some serious work if I hadn't.
IF T70 stayed alive I would probably switch 1 airborne for another AT gun so KV8 can stay in the fight longer just depends on match.
I suck with AT gun positioning, need to work on that.
I will probably need to figure out where to add MG to build since you cant always rely on stealing one or Airborne strafe for crowd control.
If you have any tips for improving build let me know, thanks. |
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This guy is a better sport than me, I would have quit with how many squad wipes. He stabilized when he made his tanks but it didnt last long.
Started with engi clown car, harassed and pulled back a few times for repairs. He pushed my fuel but must not have been paying attention got 2 VG wipes and then chased down his Kubel.
Since he is lacking in inf, i decide to skip mg and make SMG and PTRS squad. He pushes me back with his Luchs which I cant get out of position.
He makes a Jaeger squad which is helping him play keep away from my car but he takes damage and gets on a retreat path straight to my SMG penals, another wipe.
I decide to skip LV since T70 isn't really gonna help much against his non existent infantry and will take to long to kill luchs, make LMG guards to keep bleed and pressure up.
Finally get out T34, he was capping close to my base, caught lone VG late retreat, another wipe.
I get passive since I now have 2 T34 and pretty much push him back whenever, allows him to build up his tanks and raks.
To bait him I attack far left side of map over and over and he finally pushes back with both P4J which allows me to snare 1 but I do lose PTRS penal in process. I send all 4 T34, kill the snared tank but his overwatch pushes me back and my tanks are in bad shape. He chases but runs over mine and I get him with a stolen rak.
Once more it looks bleak for him but he refuses to give up, got to respect that but it is looking tough. I send infantry out while rebuilding my tank blob, waiting for him to send his raks to opposite side so I can rush his Schwerer. I finally catch him, destroy his building and pretty much force him to go KT.
I randomly catch his Ober by itself and wipe it with my 4 tank blob.
I get my blob up to 6 tanks and attack his base, destroy Battlegroupe but lose tank in the process.
He finally gets his KT out so I got to deal with that, he keeps it pretty much in the center of the map so I attack the right side of the map and force him to use Sector assault. I disengage, go back to base to repair and attempt to catch his KT out of position with out having to worry about planes. I get his KT with my Camo Rak and rush all my tanks at him and get the kill. From this point on, he attempts to hold on to VP points while I bleed him to the end.
GG
I rpobably could have eneded the game a lot sooner by just making a Katy but I got tunnel vision and I was trading pretty well with them.
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Longer map so went with airborne for LMG, HMG and SMG.
Early game lots of back and forth but didn't lose many units while cutting his gas a few times. Lost an engi during a decap so I stayed away for a bit.
Made SMG Penal, didn't get any wipes but I consistently bullied and forced retreats.
Due to his delayed fuel income his flak was a min or 2 late by that point I had the army composition I wanted 3 penal/1 LMG/2 HMG and was just stalling for T34.
Used T34 to push his infantry back, got a lucky shot which wiped Sturmpio.
Pretty much already had enough gas to get 2nd T34, so I waited on some reinforcements to get tank out early and use tanks to patrol and protect flanks.
Used tanks to rush enemy HMG got the decrew but took a while to destroy decrewed gun, at this point I got 3 T34 and he got out Panther.
I hold tanks until chance to rush his Schwerer, get the chance go in get the kill while he is occupied on other side of map with 2 Inf squads and HMG which wipe his 2nd sturm.
I pull tanks back and wait for his next mistake, as we prod each other he accidently gets to close to PTRS Penal and I finish tank off.
At this point I just attack whatever side his Raks aren't, eventually catching another Sturmpio squad alone and get 3rd wipe.
He is probably tiger stalling but his army has pretty much been decimated and GG. |
The Stg upgrade on Volks is (balance wise) completely fine. You pay 60 muni for good close and medium range dmg increase and therefore a nice powerspike.
Whats bad about Volks is their awful "target size" with 0,77 at max vet, which translates into 520 effective HP. Compare this to Rifles 625, Cons 676 (pre upgrade) or Penals 623. On top of that they only get x1,3 accuracy with vet while having no option to get powerful lategame weaponery like dual bars or dual brens to compensate for this. But i think the bleeding part is way worse than having supbar dmg. At the end of the day Cons get 5,38 hp per manpower (reinforce), Rifle 4,46 and Penals/Volks 4,16.
I dont think it would harm balance much if Volks get a little boost on lvl 5, healing on 4 and remove the useless vision shit. But i guess there is no room for that after 3 years of putting Grens and Cons into the prime position they are now .
Not sure what you can do without messing with balance. When compared to Penals, you are not locked into a specific tech early, similar reinforce and similar HP since the increase is due to the extra man. Personally I think they should get Sprint not Pfussi due to it synergizing with both MP40 upgrade and stg upgrade. |