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There are reasons why no good OKW player gets more than one SP. Whether it be bleeding to death at far range (30MP reinforce for 0.87 size CQC models), four man squad having to go close range & losing a greater proportion of its firepower per model drop, or being generally poor against people in garrisons/behind heavy cover. Then midgame arrives and 2 SPs will usually lose to 2 LMG equipped squads, esp if they have a BAR each. And so on.
They do most of what listed above and then a great deal more. Volks are frankly so abysmal that that a SP must fulfil the role of a mainline inf squad in every way. Flanking, stopping frontal assaults, dislodging dug in inf with grenade throws, zoning out CQC squads, taking early territory (GL with your volks and late MG otherwise), etc.
I liken the job of a SP squad to be a 'firefighter' where they are needed to put out fires in several places at the same time.
In any case, this stuff has been discussed to death by players far more experienced than myself.
I think the main reason they aren't used more is their initial cost. At what 320MP for 4 man squad is a tough pill to swallow. But their starting target size is better that pretty much better than every other mainline unit along with concussive nade at VET1 and target size of .63 at VET2. If their starting price was lets say 280MP(same as AssEngi) VG would be pretty much made irrelevant aside from the need of a snare. |
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Opening was slightly strange. My teammates appeared to play together so they went to their side and kind of left me to fight for my side. No biggie I decide to make a sniper as I have been decent with them lately. However I notice teammate makes 2, then eventually a 3rd sniper. As a result we dont have great map control but they are bleeding the crap out of their side while I poke around here and there. They have an extremely turtleish style of play so most of mid map is left to me. I get KV1s out but they are more damage sponges then attackers so I wait for my chance while ally uses katy to arty the hell out of them. I also make B4 but it is pretty much useless for me most of the match. We eventually drop to about 120 point and it ain't looking good. These guys dont seem to want to push so got to do something.
I send a PTRS penal to snare Brumbar that is protecting middle star, I get it but lose Penal squad in the process. It is go time and send both my KV1 to try and take it out. They rush their tanks to protect but ally call in Anti-tank Overwatch. I lose both KV1 but they lose all their tanks in the area. The KV1s didnt do much but their health allowed ATO to do as much damage as possible so good trade. They manage to get mid star back but Axis are now out of comfort zone and scrambling to rebuild tanks. Constant Katy barrages and ISU152 finally showing up starts to drain their MP while they stall for heavy tanks. We eventually get down to about 50points but at that point we have effectively put them on their back foot. All bad rng is paid back as P5 and P4 miss my SU85 or bounce(lol) while i get a couple kills, ISU152 gets some wipes and B4 finally wipes a couple squads. Eventually they get us down to 10 points but game is firmly in our hands and we have pretty much destroyed all their armies. GG |
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From the start it felt like they were a team, they seemed to dig in and work together a decent bit. Team mate made halftrack which we used to contest middle but they seemed to be able to keep pressure up. At one point it was looking bleak and one wanted to surrender but we kept pushing. Eventually they got Pak43/JT but they seemed to have to much pop located to defensive play and we invested heavly in arty which allowed us to force them to react. Eventually we beat up the JT as it got stuck in a tank blob with KT an P4J and as it started to get away my heavy plane pass from Terror Tactics got the last bit of health and we got the kill. At that point we started to overwhelm there defenses and eventually caught KT out of position. The ost player was holding on but a few well placed RAMs followed by my allies Su85 and Zis got the kill. |
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From the start it felt like they were a team, they seemed to dig in and work together a decent bit. Team mate made halftrack which we used to contest middle but they seemed to be able to keep pressure up. At one point it was looking bleak and one wanted to surrender but we kept pushing. Eventually they got Pak43/JT but they seemed to have to much pop located to defensive play and we invested heavly in arty which allowed us to force them to react. Eventually we beat up the JT as it got stuck in a tank blob with KT an P4J and as it started to get away my heavy plane pass from Terror Tactics got the last bit of health and we got the kill. At that point we started to overwhelm there defenses and eventually caught KT out of position. The ost player was holding on but a few well placed RAMs followed by my allies Su85 and Zis got the kill. |
As far as I can remember As. Gu. would beat Rangers once vetted (before the M1 changes) and they probably still do.
They are also CP 2 instead of CP 3 and come with grenade barrage.
As for Penals vet 1 bonus it is actually a weird buff since it work better in prolonged fights. One should can gain the most of it from long range cover to cover fights where where is there is less RNG.
Completely forgot about the CP2 vs CP3. That makes perfect sense. AssGuards winning sounds a little weird. The massive damage increase from the 4th thompson should negate the extra durability from the AssGu 6thman. I would expect Pathfinders to outright win then since they are 6 man plus 4 thompson and if all else fails they got tactical advance.
Yea the penal bonus is a hard one to use since soviets can only put down green cover with Cons. I think thats the main reason they can get outblobed by G43 Fussies. They on paper match up well but since the G43 blob can keep chasing without stopping it makes a prolonged fight pointless unless you have green cover available beforehand. |
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Light vehicle handle as bad or worse than tanks.
Lack of explanation of unit upgrades and VET gain.
An official sandbox to try said upgrades/VET
Lack of vehicle priority for AT infantry.
Lack of a toggle for units to keep moving until optimum damage distance. So if you have PG/Gren or Penal/Shocks they all don't stop when you see or engage an enemy. |
Well you do not need to get closer...They have good DPS at mid range.
But they have better DPS at short range along with a short range nade. I think most would assume Assaulting means to move up close and attack. However the point of the question was more in comparison to Rangers and Paratroopers that get 4 Thompsons. I know they are different factions by why the difference upgrade? At close range, the Assault Guards are no better than Airborne while lacking the ability to move in or hide. Yes they are better at mid range but out of all Soviet elites they seem to have the least upside. Shocks can assault better, Reg Guards have more versatility and better long range, Airborne are better short range and long range. |
That's just for regular volks. No upgrades
Once the mp40 upgrade finishes, their target size goes to .93:
Volksgrenadier Assault Package
Volksgrenadier infantry can buy the upgrade to change their role and support the aggressive nature of the doctrine.
- Equips all squad members with MP40’s; Assault Grenadier variant
- Unlocks Smoke and HE grenade
- Takes up both weapon slots
- Mutually exclusive with STG upgrade
- Removes access to Flame Grenade
- Requires a truck to be set up
- Grants 0.93 received accuracy to the squad
- Costs 45 munitions
Cool, I stand corrected. Not a bad upgrade for 45muni. I think making the CQC combat package in the commanders I listed earlier along with a smoke nade or Oorah would make Penals just as viable as or better than VGMP40 or AssGrens.
One thing I have been wondering, why do Assault Guards only get 3 Thompsons? Was it due to merge/synergy with conscripts. They seems to be better on paper than Airborne PPSH until you need to get close to whatever your assaulting. The lack of smoke or camo for an elite unit is killer. |
I think Hannibal was comparing mp40 volks and ppsh penals. In that instance volks start out with .93 target size once they get the mp40 upgrade, and they end with .72 after vet. So it is sightly better than penals
Not that an extra man and "to the last man" doesn't help penals too, but I think mp40 volks are still a little better cqc w/ the smoke nade
I know Serealia hasn't been updated in a while but they still show the target size to be 1, not sure if the data should be the MP40 or MP44. Now OST AssG have target size of .95 maybe that is what your talking about?
On a similar note PPSH seem to have better stats than AssG SMG by quite a bit. The only downside is the ready aim time which seems to be made up for with superior near burst/moving acc/cooldown. |
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