(Wehr vs USF) Kholodny Winter using T2-first strategyby: Colonel0tto map: Kholodny Ferma Winter1-
Profile of Colonel0tto
Register Time: 16 Jul 2013, 19:10 PM
Nationality: United Kingdom
Game Name: Less Mysterious Guy
Register Time: 16 Jul 2013, 19:10 PM
Nationality: United Kingdom
Game Name: Less Mysterious Guy
Post History of Colonel0tto
Thread: Utterly bonkers strategy but it just about works18 Aug 2014, 18:24 PM
Second replay on a somewhat more challenging map against a better opponent
Thread: (Wehr vs USF) Kholodny Winter using T2-first strategy18 Aug 2014, 18:14 PM
Using T2-first strat vs aggressive US player, let's see how it pans out.
Thread: Utterly bonkers strategy but it just about works9 Aug 2014, 21:03 PM
I'm really glad you took the time to watch the replay, I'm working on getting better up sharpish, as I understand this guy wasn't exactly top-tier. With regards to the game though, while I may not have had frontline infantry in place, I was in a good spot to start sending panzergrens in 250 halftracks, which in combination with the ostwind and mortar presence would likely allow me to start taking better map control. I could have brought out lmg grens right off the bat as well to build up a bit of an assaulting frontline in combination with flamer pios.
The Stuart is the early unit I'm most scared of, but seeing the early Liutenant tech meant that I didn't need to panic and make sure I had two at guns.
Your final point is interesting. After seeing my centre is clearly defended, the enemy moves to cap the flanks but finds my fuel bunkered, and when he starts taking my VP I am able to push him off with an assault gren and a pioneer. I'm also constantly harrassing his side of the map with a pioneer, though I'm not quite in a position to straight-up take his fuel.
In the end, I still like this replay simply from the reaction I ended up getting from my opponent!
Thread: Utterly bonkers strategy but it just about works9 Aug 2014, 18:53 PM
First replay, hope you enjoy!
Points from the video -
After scouting his riflemen with my assault grens I pop sprint to get away without losses before rotating to cap the entire right side of the map.
The scout car arrives at 4:30 and confuses the hell out of my opponent. He then rushes me, only to find I have an mg.
The scout car goes toe-to-toe with an AA halftrack and a bazooka squad before both units retreat with serious damage. The halftrack is unable to aggress me for the rest of the game, my mortars deal it significant damage
The bunker on my fuel keeps my flank and my resources safe, and upon seeing I have an Ostwind my opponent ragequits the game.
Thread: Utterly bonkers strategy but it just about works9 Aug 2014, 18:43 PM
Symbol, I assume you are referring to the Dodge, in which case I'd say that unit is the best counter the US have to this strategy. HOWEVER, that doctrine is pretty terrible against standard (i.e. gren-focussed) Wehr play, and as such I rarely end up facing it. Plus, a good assault gren flank that secures a kill on this very squishy unit puts you very far ahead. If you are referring to the M20 utility car, the bazooka-weilding crewmen can be scary but otherwise your scout car (which often arrives before 5 minutes) should mop this up nicely.
Thread: Utterly bonkers strategy but it just about works9 Aug 2014, 18:39 PM
I've updated my post as I've had some time to test and revise some points of the strategy. Rushing an up-gunned scout car proves more effective than rushing for panzergrenadiers, and the halftrack appears less important to build at all. Getting an early MG is also a huge priority, so it comes straight after the scout-car. It is followed up by mortars, my opinion of which has skyrocketed after more playtesting. Two mortars are now practically the core of this strategy. I've changed my view about mechanized assault group too - since I don't build early panzergrenadiers, having them arrive at CP3 is less of an issue and the 250 halftrack offers very useful mobility.
Thread: Manouvre and hold replay9 Aug 2014, 18:12 PM
Beating a fairly standard US player with a Tier 2 first strategy as Ostheer. Scout car comes out at 4:30, USF player doesn't really know how to handle it.
Thread: Utterly bonkers strategy but it just about works28 Jul 2014, 10:09 AM
You're absolutely correct about the effectiveness of the Mechanized commander, I'd just like to address a few points in relation to this strat.
My guiding principle was, what is the most cost effective way for Wehr to deal with USF infantry? A pioneer is the most cost effective way to wreck a rear echelon squad early game (and can fairly easily wipe the squad). Two pioneers will defeat a rifleman with adequate cover movement. An assault grenadier deals with the issue of early buildings and can help a pioneer take out a rifleman squad... You get the idea.
Furthermore, by aggressive capping with pioneers (far from 'lacking mobility') you can straight-up outmaneuver the USF, especially if they're taking their time to pump out vetted riflemen. Plus, if the enemy is clearly blobbing for your cutoff all the time, you can build tier 1 and bring out the mgs, (though I prefer using bunkers).
I realize that Assault grenadiers are more powerful, but they're also more expensive to reinforce, don't scale to late game and are slower to pump out. They're not gonna be your frontline unit, but a flanking force that defeats small groups that engage your pioneers.
With regards to mechanized assault group.... meh. I honestly don't find myself using this too often, as it comes a bit too late (I've usually got a halftrack and a panzergren by the time it's available). StuG E's though... they're utterly brilliant.
Thanks for the comment
Thread: Utterly bonkers strategy but it just about works15 Jul 2014, 18:45 PM
I don't believe pioneer-heavy openings in Coh2 are quite dead, and the nature of the USF/Wehr matchup might be enough resuscitate it. I like playing Wehrmacht in a different way, and I've been having far too much success with this strat not to share it, so here goes...
Step one - build 3 early pioneers to cap the map as quick as possible, complemented by an assault grenadier or other CP 0 unit. Don't take an engagement unless cover is favourable and you can 2v1 an enemy (feel free to facepunch rear echelons if they try to 1v1 you). Flanking assault grens with sprint can allow you to 2v1 more easily, but be wary of taking a bad engagement, your main task is to cap a lot and harass the enemy cutoff. Build bunkers if you're taking a while to get fuel for tech upgrades. Upgrade HQ when you can, you are skipping your first building for now (for now).
Step two - Keep rotating around the map and back-cap where you can. Build your Leichte Mechanized Kompanie as soon as possible and produce and up-gunned scout car. Use it to bully riflemen and eviscerate jeeps for as long as possible but keep it safe, as it can be a very useful tool in killing off halftracks (successfully approach the HT from it's front and you have a good chance to destroy it). Build your infanterie companie soon afterwards to get your first mg and keep your cutoff safe.
Step three - Mgs and mortars will help a great deal against angry US blobber - I usually find myself building two of each. A pak gun will act as added insurance against the HT and/or Stuart tank as you continue to build up a strong position, creeping forward using mortar barrages and aggressive mg positioning. Your pioneers should be constantly active, building, wiring, mining and capping points.
Step four- your call. If you are ahead in fuel, an Ostwind can often finish the game for you. Otherwise get a second pak and go for Stug E (this unit is unbelievable against US infantry if you're lucky enough to possess the commander), or go T4. I know some people don't like panthers - I really do, they are effective when supported and suit my playstyle of shock-tactics. Another strong alternative is to keep stalling for Tiger, but you may find yourself punished by M8A1's/ pack howitzers.
Overview: I've won more games than I've lost using this. The basic premise is to take advantage of the early-game capping weakness of USF and punish them for overextending to cap with one unit. Early AT comes out for the Flack HT/Stuart, and anti-blob mechanisms come out when that starts becoming a problem.
Loading a halftrack with a panzergren and an assgren/flamer pio can allow you to perform a pretty devastating and unexpected doom-drop on an enemy fighting position or overextended unit. Don't underestimate the morale effect of an early squadwipe in this manner.
Disclaimer - DO NOT USE THIS STRAT ON WINTER MAPS - vps on these maps tend to favour early aggression, which this strat doesn't really provide for.
Thanks for reading, I'd love to hear peoples views on this and any reports they have of using it. I'll continue posting replays in coming weeks.
Edit: Revised and condensed several parts of the strategy
Replaced first replay with a closer game
Replay of a close game:
Thread: So you want successful 1v1 Strategies...17 Jul 2013, 09:25 AM
17 Jul 2013, 09:11 AMWeeman
Thanks for the guide! I might give this a try later on.
Glad you've found this interesting, and you're absolutely correct. I think the only time I'd really consider going down the scout car route would be if I were facing irritating mg/bunker strategies. Even then, the zis with it's AT barrage can be pretty effective against emplacements. Still, a lot of people just prefer using Guards/ ppsh conscripts to shock troops, so I decided to come up with two options.
Good luck with the strat! ^ ^
Latest replays uploaded by Colonel0tto
Ladders Top 10