Profile of S0_L337_1T_HURTS

Issue of RAM cost aside; maybe the answer is the RAM mechanic itself. Some say RAM is too extreme, I think at the very least it could be made morel dynamic.

I think two things for certain: RAM should always disable the gun and engine of the ramming tank 100% of the time. That's the physical cost of RAM which should always remain regardless of anything else.

But maybe there should be a dice roll as to whether or not, at least on the larger tanks like Panther, Elephant, Brummbar, and Tiger, maybe these tanks should have slightly more protection from RAM or at lest make RAM more of a dice roll for these units specifically. There should be a diceroll that either the maingun is damaged or the engine is damaged but not both. I don't know. Just ideas...

But having an Elephant, the most expensive unit in the game, insta-disabled by RAM doesn't feel right to anyone.

...but this would need to come with a commensurate reduction in AI, for a commensurate increase in AT.

It would. But you're then making all other german armor even weaker. With your change the T34 is now a P4, slightly weaker still but a P4. One that still, even with a commensurate AI nerf, kills infantry faster and better than a P4 and now is more of a threat to the P4. It's also cheaper. Runs circles around PAK's or dispatches them fast (and PAK's are inefficient anyway), steamrolls infantry, etc. There's tons of issues going on in the background here. Tons.

And it's still cheap as hell. You want it to be a P4 but cheaper.

Buffing any stat of the T34, even slightly, exaggerates all other imbalances. Nearly everything else needs to be addressed at the same time or first. Otherwise, hold onto your hats.

The T34/76 is a Ticking Time Bomb of imbalance just waiting to go off. If these are buffed in even the slightest of ways, the game will swing so far out of scale in the Soviet favor that recent imbalances will feel insignificant by comparison.

Specifically, the growing chorus of calls for T34/T70 buffs from the general public (and apparently Dev's themselves, I hear) is extremely concerning.

Five Core Concerns:

(1) T34 racecar speed + crush
(3) Maingun melts infantry
(4) RAM
(5) T34 vs P4

Firstly, T34 speed is very very fast. As are all Soviet armor. The T34/76 is a light tank, the racecare-like speed is, by itself, an OK thing. But when speed is combined with Tank Crush, along with tiny german squad size (that forms in a tight bunch) it creates an imbalance. It's hardly mentioned here but good Soviet players just race-car over entire squads in a flash. I've had this happen countless times. The frustrating thing is there's nothing you can do. Making it worse, the german squads are inherently small and the AI bunches them together tightly. Just asking to be run over.

The P4 can also crush but this is not OP for very important and very different reasons, that is: The P4 is (1) Slower in both speed and handling than T34 thus giving players more time to react and (2) Soviet squads are larger and are more spread out (harder to run over, more likely to survive), their displacement movement speed is also faster than germans (AI moves out of the way on their own faster), but above all else, soviet squads fire on-the-move while german squads fire standing still... thus making germans sitting ducks.

When attempting to run over soviet squads with a P4, the soviet squad AI moves them out of the way most of the time, while german squads stand there like test dummys. You may run over a Soviets using a P4, and if you're really determined you may run over them all, though it will take time to drive around doing this whereas the soviet T34 just eviscerates the entire squad in one second. I've had several german squads, through no fault of their own, get run over in a flash by T34's. It's ridiculous and clearly not what anyone wants for this game.

Secondly, the soviet main gun absolutely eviscerates infantry. It's worlds better than the P4 at killing infantry and performs more like an Ostwind against infantry. The T34 is basically an Ostwind in Tank form. That's how good it is against infantry. So if you're not getting run over by the T34, you're getting face melted by its maingun.

Finally, RAM. This is OP and I don't even have to explain why. First, it's free. Which I would actually be OK with if the rest of the tank wasn't so OP. Ask yourself, what tank in the game comes as close to the Ostwind in infantry killing? The answer is the T34. ONly a swarm of the russian mini-tanks kills faster than the T34.

As it stands the tank is great against infantry. And in addition it insta-disables ANY tank in the game regardless of size, cost or armor. I don't think I have to explain how even a single T34 will prevent a P4 from moving into enemy territory, knowing it will just be rammed.

T34 needs a nerf not a buff. In sum: For its cost, it's the most power and useful tank in the game. Of everyone who says otherwise, the flaw in their reasoning simple: comparison of the T34 to P4 when they are not meant to be 'equals'. T34 has RAM and can instantly disable any tank in the game. For free. It also kills infantry much faster than the P4 and almost as fast as the Ostwind. The P4 this is not, it's better in many respects, especially for its cost. Talk of buffing the T34 needs to end, now.

after seeing "Ram" is free, T-34 kills infantry as fast as ostwind, I stopped reading

OFF TOPIC: (T34 discussion)
If you quit reading it's due to embarrassingly low reading comprehension, I said none of what you claim. Let's walk through your above statement point by point:

"Ram is Free".
Does RAM cost munitions? No.
Does ram require a vet ability? No.
Does ram require some other form or type of upgrade? No.
Is there any cost to ram at all? No.
Did you answer YES to any of those questions? No? Well then, RAM is "free", isn't it?
I suppose you'll attempt to argue the "cost" of ram is the disabling of the T34 itself. But the T34 is a cheap spammable throwaway, hardly a loss of any significance. That is assuming you lost it. Often not the case. It's much easier and faster to repair than the P4. Oh, and Russian tanks can self-heal via a doctrine ability (though I don't like to bring doctrine abilities into these discussions for all sorts of reasons).

So, RAM is free. It comes at no cost to the soviet player. If he's losing a tank battle, he can just RAM in his final moments and still possibly save his tank. P4's can't do that.

Now let's address the second statement: "T34 kills infantry as fast as Ostwind". I never said this. I wont even bother quoting myself because it'll embarrass you further. You know what I said. But go back and look and you will see clearly I stated the T34 kills infantry better than the P4 and almost as good as the Ostwind. Both are true. The T34 is a tanky-Ostwind. Ask yourself, what tank in the game comes as close to the Ostwind in infantry killing? The answer is the T34. ONly a swarm of the russian mini-tanks kills faster than the T34.

All of this is wildly OFF TOPIC. Let's save the T34 discussions for its own thread.

BACK TO TOPIC: I will also add to other voices here that the SU-85 routinely snipes infantry at all ranges in all types of situations. And it forces you to pause and lay on the ground. It's maddening. Not even the Elephant snipes infantry. Ridiculous. Not to mention the infantry sniping is causing a whole host of other imbalances, like with PAK.

One of the nerfs to the STUG reduced actual range while maintaining its sight range, so the tank can see beyond what it can actually shoot. If RELIC finds that acceptable for the STUG then I propose a similar nerf to the SU-85.

There's three major issues to address with the SU-85, and several more as secondary:
(1) the infantry killing power.
(2) the front/turning/reverse speed, at least one of three should be adjusted. Ideally, two.
(3) its cost. T4 comes too early and too often. Assuming the stats are properly adjusted perhaps this should be left alone. If however nothing's adjusted then this needs to be looked at. It's killing the gameplay.

A quick word on the T34 even though it's also not connected to any of this, not even loosely. Firstly, the T34 is the most powerful tank in the game for its cost, one ram will instantly disable any tank the germans can field. It's also not meant to go toe-to-toe against a P4 in any instance, for that very reason. A lone microed T34 or one lightly supported (we're talking one conscript squad at the least) can win an engagement. T34 also, by the way, is very very effective against infantry. VERY effective. At the very least it's way more effective than, say, the P4 in the same roll. It's the closest thing soviets have to an Ostwind. The flaw in reasoning is thinking a T34 is a P4 or should be equal and they're different.

So, added together there's no comparison between the T34 and P4 and considering the aforementioned there shouldn't be. And lastly the reason there's 'P4' spam is because there's Soviet T4 spam. Solve the former to fix the first.

Back to topic: The Ostwind is better at infantry killing than the P4, we know. That's the only reason to choose this over the P4. But as I stated, It's too susceptible to soviet T4 that exists by the time T3 goes up... anyone doing the math is going to build a P4 over an Ostwind. However, I WOULD consider building a Panzerwerfer over a P4 at the same stage because it's indirect fire and can (potentially) survive longer. We need this back in T3.