Ah yes, this has finally turned into a Penals discussion with people unironically calling them viable.
And this tells us the following: the key to the T70 meta might lay with the penal squad. The Penals are supposed to provide AI capability, but might not fulfil that role as intended. This forces players to resort to the T70.
A change to penals, if one ever is to happen, might solve the T70 meta by it's own.
I did a bit of testing on Penals yesterday, and their combat performance at vet 3 is a lot better than I expected it to be. Unsurprisingly they don't beat Grens or Guards at 35 range behind green cover, but they're consistently able to beat 7man cons with 2-3 models left at that range. I think Penals would be a pretty good unit if they were made cheaper, had their early performance reduced slightly to ensure they don't walk all over Grens/Volks (Which they do unit-for unit, but are hampered by price), and had some sort of AI upgrade lategame.
My suggestion would be to give them an ATV-40 upgrade, combined with a model cost reduction, though I don't know if such a thing is really possible. No model exists, but the gun is practically identical visually to an SVT-40.
Thanks for your thoughts, I would like to keep this on Build orders however. But we did a seimilar experiment with the same result. Which is quite interesting.
Penals meta BOs also utilized T-70, because penals do NOT offer high firepower outside of early game, regardless of how many times V will remind everyone about their vet accuracy, their rec acc and fact others get proper weapon upgrades mean penals fall short in mid game BADLY compared to all other infantry units, including cons.
If you don't like being constested, don't post on forums?
I would like to contest YOU on this. I made a little experiment, duel between Grenadiers and Penals.
5 rounds of combat, both units in heavy cover, no LoF obstructions. Grenadiers all with LMG upgrade.
This proves you wrong. Actually, the opposite is true. A penal squad beats an upgraded grenadier at both long and close range when both are at vet 2. So I would say that Penals do scale into the mid-game quite well.
Well, it wouldn't replace T70 meta, simply cause of how effective the T70 is at its role.
The T70 is perfect at supporting double Zis guns with its fast rate of fire and great AoE damage. Also allows your Zis guns to acquire targets easily if it goes into Recon Mode.
Compare it to a T34 which would come 4 minutes later if you skip the T70 (and kept map control). It has less reliable AI and no recon mode. You get better HP and armor in return (but worse mobility and a bigger target size and both a T70 and T34 will die to two salvos from double AT guns anyway). You get decent AT compared to almost zero AT from the T70, but it's still unreliable at best against other medium tanks, so most of your AT will still come from the Zis guns. You would get 7 men Cons earlier, which is actually the best argument for rushing T4, but overall I wouldn't say it's worth the risk. Getting a T70 only delays a T34 by 3 minutes anyway.
There's an exception though. If your opponent is really overinvested into light vehicles and you have no issue keeping up with his infantry, a T34 will have an easier time than the T70 at hunting the vehicles down.
Now remove the T1 part and you find what people are using vs Osttruppen builds.
Now now, Katitof stated that all 3 weapons are UP, yet you are telling me that people use them. I would agree with you on this. Every unit has a possible use ingame. Some are better, some are worse. It's about the composition. As far as I am concerned the support Trio might be the crutches needed to drop the T70 as jack of all trades. Worth a thought I guess.