Just do a simple 4 Conscript build with T2. Then let those Conscripts scale by dropping SVT's or rushing T4 for 7 men upgrade. Substitute the T70 with either a Guard squad, DshK or Quad.
Riskier option is a T1 build with double Shocks and double M-42 straight into T4. Needs a lot of skill to get enough value out of Penals and Shocks without bleeding needlessly. Also need very good M-42 usage to not get overrun by vehicles or tanks, always use camo for better rof and pen. If done well you can exert a lot of pressure without the need of a T70. Here's Kimbo doing it with varying results against a top 3 player: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqem7yAThx0
Thank god, finally a constructive post. So the T70 meta could really be broken through by Build order changes? Who would have guessed...
YOU CAN NOT FIX T-70 ISSUE WITH CHANGE OF BO, BECAUSE ITS CORE INFANTRY ISSUE.
Both, penals AND cons do BAD in mid game for the exact same reasons, lack of sufficient scaling, where T-70 comes for help. If 7th man was unlocked for free at T3, or penals had weapon upgrade we'd have different discussion.
How about a T1 opening supported by the doctrinal dshka, m42 and the 120mm mortar? This would enhance both AI and light AT during the early and mid game.
I've already said why this is a horrible BO and if anything, it needs T-70 more then any other to salvage the game.
If you don't like being constested, don't post on forums?
I am here to be contested, that's the whole point. Post an alternative buildorder to overcome the T70. You are not contesting me, you are just denying my right to discuss things. Give us a possible alternative, if my BO is horrible.
1 conscript with AT nades is not enough for AT and 2 penals aren't really enough for AI if you don't go for T70.
What I've been doing is a Tank Hunter build as follows:
2x cons, T1, sniper x2 penal or 3x penal if sniper is not a viable option (vs Ostruppen for example)
Save early munitions for Conscript PTRS upgrade as soon as you hit 2CP (1x early and 1x later or 2x early depending on how the game goes). The cammo ambush can really catch people off guard and insta kill any Panzer2s or Flame HTs.
Depending on how the game goes, a T70 might still be required though.
This might be a really MP heavy build, it might be a challenge to sustain 2 cons and 3 penals.
Anyway, my build does not have rely only on the cons At-nade. One extra penal with a ptrs upgrade might be a solution to that problem?
(its because penals are not as great as some forum aryans want to make you think and people learned to hardcounter them badly).
Please keep in mind that this is not about penals or balance or anything. This is about discussing builds without the T70. This does not mean a mandatory T1 opening, that's just my post. Please feel free to propose alternatives.
CE T1 Cons Penal Penal AT nade Sniper Su76 might be the worst build order you can do as soviets.
I think some more explanation is in order. Why do you think it's the worst possbile option? Tell me. Pls be more open minded without saying "people don't do this and people do that". I would like to remind you that HelpingHans brought us Ostruppen with a very specific tactic and it works.
I would like to propose an alternative to the T70 meta that has currently infected soviet play.
Now, please keep the following in mind before you answer:
The path I propose is a T1 opening with 2 combat engineers and 1 conscript coming beforehand. This gives us an acceptable amount of map control before bringing out 2 penal squads. So much for the infantry foundation.
Now, afterwards I think either a sniper is in order (if you are noticing a support heavy build, e.g. Ost) or an M3 Halftrack. The M3 might actually be more viable if built right after T1 construction.
Next up is T3 and here (as th title says) I would go for a SU-76. Yes, the cyka. Since the penal opening gives this Tactic strong AI power, there's no need for an allround unit. The SU-76 is perfect to deal with every light vehicle on the field in the early/mid game. The cons using an AT grenade will support this way of playing.
Infantry Heavy opponent
Then it is time to build T4 and get out either a T34 or a SU-85, depending on your overall advantage. I woud go for a T34 if you are ahead, since it's unlikely that your opponent will field a tank as fast as you. The SU-85 is more of a comeback option for me, if you are overwhelmed by an axis lategame tank.
To sum up the advantages and disadvantages of this approach:
This is not supposed to be a complete build order guide and far from Popcap. Depending on the situation and enemy you encounter various other units from doctrines can be integrated.
Let's hear what the poeple of this forum have to say.
I've noticed this phenomenon too, it really ruins the game for the remaining players. especially in 3v3. It's a serious blow to the team if a human player is substituted by AI. I would really support this.