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Register Time: 26 Aug 2017, 18:38 PM
Last Visit Time: 29 Jan 2026, 10:15 AM
Broadcast: https://www.twitch.tv/Rosbone_Mako
Steam: 76561198351782810
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Thread: NEW: Inputlag in coh2 29 Dec 2020, 21:16 PM

I am currently reading a little about newer routers and IPv6. One thing I keep seeing is people turning on router QoS and then having issues with IPv6. Or even issues in general.

Just something to think about.

In: COH2 Gameplay

Thread: (2) Overloon Fields24 Dec 2020, 15:45 PM

You sound well on your way!

When the next version is ready you can post the steam link on the Discord in MAPS-WIP and ask @WhiteFlashReborn to make a post for it on the Discord. He runs the Discord Server.

Since you got people interested here, I would continue to post here also.

In: Map Sharing

Thread: 64 bit beta for coh223 Dec 2020, 19:02 PM

In the past Relic is normally a month or two behind their estimates. Sometimes it is on their end. Other times like a balance patch, maybe needed extra time to get it right.

But Coh2 has made a transition recently that is adding new wrinkles. So this is not a normal delay for them.

I am the first person to always give them shit about missing dates since us unpaid noobs can hit them. But I give them a pass on the 64-bit patch.

It would be best to get the 64 patch before the balance patch just for troubleshooting purposes, Less variables is always better.

And in the form of jokes:
- The patch dates are now on the new Covid 2020 timelines.
- The patch has Covid.

any other good ones out there?

In: Lobby

Thread: (2) Overloon Fields23 Dec 2020, 18:52 PM

23 Dec 2020, 18:41 PMJPA32

I might start sidelining other projects harder to work more on this with the amount of attention it's receiving

It is VERY RARE for a new map to get anyone to even look at it. So having players like Orangepest, Elpern, and The Angry Dutchman give it a test is amazing and not the norm. So do not get discouraged if that all goes away.

In the past, Tric was the person who pushed new maps with mapping contests. And as of late, we have had AE, Stormless (KoH), and Olvadi really start pushing new maps. Which is very good to see. So hopefully the community is starting to look at testing new maps as a way to avoid garbage maps getting into automatch.

Discord is good for chatting and posting images right to discord (drag and drop, etc) so it is easy to work with when discussing maps.

Another thing I like to tell mappers is to add a version to your map. Since Coh2 takes a few minutes sometimes to sync its maps, players may get into issues of not having the correct version. So a version number in the name lets them troubleshoot that right away. You dont want a streamer fiddling around for 15 minutes just trying to play your map.

On the stream I think Elpern said there was a random red cover spot. I missed what it was. But the small branch object is bugged and it gives red cover. Its like Branch_small_03 or something. If you have those on the map.

In: Map Sharing

Thread: (2) Overloon Fields23 Dec 2020, 17:40 PM

Thanks for the reply! I responded in the map size post. Best of luck on the map!

Did you see the games Elpern and The Angry Dutchman played on stream yesterday? I think they felt it was a little small and there was some talk about the position of sight blockers on the sides being right they would expect to place units. I did not get to see it all so you should check it out if you missed it. There may be some good info there.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/846215174

In: Map Sharing

Thread: COH2 MAP SIZE DISCUSSION23 Dec 2020, 17:33 PM

23 Dec 2020, 15:44 PMJPA32

When talking of Crossroads specifically, you say it's Base to Base distance is 230. Is that in a straight line? Because when you exit your base in Crossroads you are required to exit the base from the side, lengthening the time to contact and by extension creating a longer "actual" base to base distance (guesstimate would be maybe 250?).

Yes, you are correct. In my laziness I usually measure straight line. So you would be right to say it is closer to 250 actual pathing distance. The other thing to think about is how the shorter distance helps things like indirect fire, etc. The shorter distance may mean the enemy cutoff is closer also and easier to attack.

That is why I put UNDER CONSTRUCTION on the title. I wanted a place where, as we gather information, we can document it. So new mappers can get a head start and not have to learn the hard way through trial and error like we normally do. And I want it open to debate and discussion like your post here. I will add your thoughts as they are very valid.

Like it says at the end, size is not everything.

In: Mapping Discussion

Thread: (2) Overloon Fields22 Dec 2020, 21:25 PM

Might be good to join the Mapping Discord also. Will be easier for feedback and images.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/101295/new-worldbuilders-testers-discord/page/1#post_id787087

In: Map Sharing

Thread: (2) Overloon Fields22 Dec 2020, 20:43 PM

I am finally getting around to gathering some useful data from existing maps on size.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/107186/coh2-map-size-discussion/page/1#post_id845145

May be helpful.

In: Map Sharing

Thread: COH2 MAP SIZE DISCUSSION22 Dec 2020, 20:36 PM

UNDER CONSTRUCTION - IS A WORK IN PROGRESS
Last edit on Dec 24, 2020

The first step to making a map is deciding how big to make the map. In the past we had an image floating around that gives us a good starting point:

When I look at a map in the Worldbuilder I like to try and have some metrics(useful data) that will let me compare this map to another map. I started with some basic measurements for size. All distances are in METERS measured in the worldbuilder. For many distances I like to measure from a starting point to the closest point on the capping circle. For base measurements I use the center of the base pizza. This will vary a little between factions and base rotation.

Of course a few measurements do not decide how good/fun a map is. Most players go by 'feel'. Which is something that cant be measured. Ease of movement, pathing, sight blocking, cover placement, retreat paths, etc all are very important parts of a great map.

BASE TO BASE SIZE
The distance from the center of the base pizza to the center of the enemy base pizza. For multiplayer maps I average it the best I can. This tells us how LONG the map is. This is one of the most important sizes. If the map is too short there will be constant pressure and fighting in the middle. If the map is too large you will have units off the field for very long periods. And bad engagements are very punishing. Units that can have forward retreat points may become OP. This metric is also dependent on the base entrance design. For our generic purposes distance is measured in a straight line base to base and pathing is ignored.

FAR TO FAR
The distance between the important points on the side of the map. This is usually the distance between the outside VPs but can also be fuel or munition points. This tells us how WIDE the map will feel and play. If the map is too narrow, team weapons can become OP and lock down entire sides of the map. If the map is too wide, the enemy can flank better but you also run the risk of the enemy getting behind you and wiping squads on retreat.

VP TO VP
The distance between the outside VPs. This is usually the same as the FAR TO FAR distance. In 1v1 maps, this distance lets you know how hard it is to harass all three VPs. In 2v2 and up games, this distance dictates how long the match will go. If the VPs are too far apart it will be hard to hold all three at once. And the games will be very long and turn into slamming your head against team weapon walls on the mid VP. For most 2v2 players this is a terrible thing.

FUEL TO FUEL
Most games will focus on fuel harassment. This distance tells us how fast/urgent the map may feel. In team games fuel is everything since unit timings are increased. More fuel equals faster vehicles and even more map dominance.

NUMBER OF CUTOFFS
Most maps try to use a territory point(TP) to cutoff the fuel for a side. Some maps will use two cutoffs that cut ALL resources for that side. Depending on the layout this can ruin a map. If a map has a single strong cutoff, all of the fighting in the match will be at that cutoff. If a map has two strong cutoffs they should be placed far enough away from each other that all of the fighting does not take place at the cutoffs. You should never really design around a faction because it will change, but certain factions may have an easier time attacking a cutoff. So you do not want them to be too strong.

CUT TO CUT
The distance between cutoff points on one side of the map. This implies a two cutoff map. If the distance is too short the cutoffs will dominate play. In 2v2 and up games, easy access cutoffs will let OST use CLOSE THE POCKET and meme destroy your trapped armies. But even in team games, cutoffs can be used effectively to force armies to move and not build static defense walls.

SAFE VP
Does the map have safe VPs? If the VPs are too safe you will have very long boring games where armies clash on the middle or easiest accessed VP point. Each player will hold the easy VP and the final battles will be at the hardest VP. It is not normally a good idea to have safe VPs.

SAFE FUEL
Each game mode has different requirements for safe fuels. For 1v1 and 2v2 having a safe fuel is a good thing. More for 2v2 than 1v1. Many 2v2 players prefer a safe fuel, so in random automatch, they do not have to rely on their team mate to get the fuel. If you get an unbalanced team and your weak player is on the fuel side, you will have no fuel all game long and lose. So the fuel should be about 2/3 of the distance to the front line. This way it is safe but can still be harassed by the enemy.

1v1 MAP POOL MAP METRICS

Map Name	Base-Base	Far-Far	Vp-VP	Fuel-Fuel	Cut #	Cut-Cut	safe VP	safe Fuel
Faymonville	207	248	248	166	2	68
Vilshanka	227	230	143	153	2	73		Yes
Crossroads	231	214	190	214	2	102		Yes
Angoville	250	288	190	170	1		Yes
Langreskaya	256	250	120	250	2	81		Yes
Crossing	265	275	183	275	2	95
Kholodny	279	282	234	209	2	115		Yes
Arnhem	293	306	207	247	2	60		Yes

THOUGHTS ABOUT THE 1v1 MAP POOL
Faymonville has the shortest base to base distance (207m):
1) Matches will have a lot of action.
2) This may lead to a lot of fighting in the middle.
3) Snipers may be strong since they can retreat and be back fighting very fast. Depends on amount of sight blocking used.
4) Indirect fire may be OP since units can be close to the safety of their own base and still have a far reaching effect.

Arnhem Checkpoint has the longest base to base distance (306m):
1) Matches may be slow since it will take time to retreat and field units.
2) Engagements are very important in order to have a field presence.
3) Engagement wins can be more rewarding since you will have more time to cap territory.

Langreskaya has very short VP to VP distance (120m):
1) Will be easier to hold all three VPs so matches may be fast and decisive.
2) Depending on sight blocking, matches may end in a spearhead weapon wall type fight. Since a couple MGs can cover the entire front line between VPs.

Crossing in the woods has the farthest Fuel distances (275m):
1) It may be hard to hold both fuels since armies will be spread very wide.
2) The fuels are not safe so the longer distance is not as punishing. They can be harassed easier.

Arnhem Checkpoint has a very short CUT TO CUT distance (60m):
1) At 60m the cutoff points are too close together. The map resources can be dominated by rushing the cutoffs and locking them down.
2) Note maps like Faymonville and Vilshanka also have a short distance, but the sight and path blocking favor the players base and are much less punishing. The cutoffs are also close to the base to allow for a quick response to a decap.

WHAT IS A GOOD 1v1 STARTING SIZE
From these metrics and a guess at how popular maps are, we can guess:
1) A good base to base distance is about 230-250m. As Faymonville feels a little small and Kholodny Ferma feels a little large. Note, the amount of sight/pathing blockers used will make a map feel larger or smaller if movement is constricted.
2) A good Far distance is about 220-250m. This depends on the type of point on the outside. If the point is a munition, more space can be added as this rewards players for capping far away. But you do not want fights at these extreme widths or wipes will occur.
3) A decent VP distance is about 150-200m. Depending on sight blocking, this spreads out the fighting enough to weaken team weapons and allows for VP harassment.
4) Fuels can be anywhere from 170-200m apart depending on sight blocks and cutoff placement. You do not want it very hard to hold the fuel and cutoff. But the cutoff has to be meaningful. You want players to have to move about and not play static defensive styles.

From all of these metrics we can say that maps like Crossroads may be popular. It hits the sweet spot on many of the metrics. Although, as pointed out by JPA32, crossroads does not have front base entrances so it feels longer than 230m. This also cuts down the all-play-in-the-middle feel of short maps.

Maps such as Vilshanka are also popular even though they have slightly smaller distances for VPs and Fuels. Vilshanka has tighter sight blocking and pathing to adjust for this. So the overall 'feel' of the map is just right. NOTE: In actual plays Vilshanka is only hindered by the UI bug at the moment.

And on the far side of things we have popular maps like Faymonville and Kholodny Ferma. Which are popular even though they are a little small or a little large. Size is not everything.

4v4 GENERIC MAP SIZES

Map Name	Width	Height	Area (Sq/M)
City 17	544	608	330,752
Sittard Summer	448	704	315,392
General Mud	512	512	262,144
Hill 400	512	512	262,144
Road to Arnhem	512	512	262,144
Lorch Assault	512	480	245,760
La Gleize	480	512	245,760
Lanzerath Ambush	544	448	243,712
Lienne Forest	480	480	230,400
Essen Steelworks	480	480	230,400
Port of Hamburg	480	480	230,400
Steppes	512	448	229,736
Red Ball	544	384	208,896
White Ball	544	384	208,896

In: Mapping Discussion

Thread: NEW: Inputlag in coh2 17 Dec 2020, 22:05 PM

I made the mistake of putting a high use PC on the wired port of my hub and I am on wireless. Major lag followed. The wired port when downloading something takes all the bandwidth. You would expect some decent multiplexing but that is not the case for me.

Just another thing to think about. Be sure to check while being wired in so you are not getting blocked by random 2.4 Ghz interference or your router/switch.

In: COH2 Gameplay