Volks STG and Pgrens STG have very different weapon profiles. The Volks/Grens Kar98Ks as well.
4x Volks STG44 have ~30/19/5.8 DPS at range 5/20/35.
4x Pgren STG44 have ~62/28/4.2 DPS at range 5/20/35.
6x Volks Kar98k have ~24/16/10.8 DPS at range 5/20/35.
4x Grens Kar98k have ~20/13.5/9.1 DPS at range 5/20/35.
So no they do not have the same firepower. And OKW even needs a 120 muni investment to come even close.
Have you ever played USF vs OKW? If you played, you will know 2 rifleman with bars cannot beat 2 volks with stg44. The comparison may not that accuracy on DPS. But IN GAME, two volks with stg44 were harder to deal with then one grenadier plus one panzergenadier.
PG lost their 25% firepower when they lose one model. However, the volks only lost model with kar98k and their stg44 can still pour damage on the rifleman.
And in fact, the data you showed have shown that volks had better DPS (17.8 vs. 13.3) at 35.
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Yeah, wait, like Vipper said, this is just straight up factually wrong.
Volks kars have 12 damage. Volks' stgs are also completely different from pgren stgs.
What's even more baffling to me is that (according to the incorrect statements you made) you're implying that a 500 manpower + 120 munitions investment for OKW shouldn't have the same firepower as a 580 manpower investment for ostheer. If, by chance, you were also considering the increased durability of the two volks squads to argue the necessity of the cost increase, then you should probably have stated that. That said, I'd argue the lower durability would be made up by the superior vet of grens and pgrens.
Good, you finally realize 2 rifleman with bar, which cost 560MP + 120 ammo, should have superior performance than one grenadier plus one panzergrenadier or 2 volks with stg44.
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The volks problem is that they changed the damage of kar98K from 8 and 10. And also they give volks the stg44 update.
So actually, 2 volks squads with stg44 update had the fire power of one grenadier squad and one panzergrenadier. For me, I would rather see they change the price of volks to 270 or 280 MP to better reflect their multiple roles. |
I would say the problem with rifleman is their received accuracy. A vet 0 rifleman has 0.97 target size, and they only received next RA reduction on vet 2.
This is a big problem when facing volks, which start with 1 target size, but receive a RA reduction of 0.1 on vet 1. So volks are actually more durable than RM in the beginning. The sandbag capability of volks give them another edge on the fighting.
So I don't agree someone's argument that rifleman had better DPS so they should be more expensive. If you check those top USF player's bulletin, most of them carry the one with RM vet experience reduction. |
I've been doing quite a bit of testing with JLI using cheatcommands today just to see how effective they are.
I've been testing them at close, medium and long range against all the basic allied infantry units, both in negative cover, light color and heavy cover and with and without their G43 upgrade.
They perform well against all squads, even without their G43 upgrade, but giving them the G43 sniper makes them win every single time against every single allied squad on equal terms at all ranges, with the sole exception being allied units at close range. However, that's not a realistic scenario because you're going to have to move towards them to get into close range and take quite a bit of damage in the process.
The only time in which allied infantry have the advantage are when both squads are in negative cover, and even then Jaegers can still win sometimes with RNG, but they almost always lose to infantry sections. They fare better vs. Riflemen and Conscripts in negative cover but still lose, but often take down the allied squads to 1 man while doing so.
In green cover it's a completely different story. Jaegers, even when the opposing allied unit is in green cover win every single time, especially when you give them the G43. Even at close ranges Jaegers are overperforming vs. all allied infantry I tested when both are in green cover. Routinely jaegers can completely wipe a squad without even losing a single man, especially vs. conscripts and riflemen.
There's several things that bother me about Jaegers:
1) Their price is too cheap in a faction that already boasts a great manpower float and cheap infantry (volksgrenadiers)
2) Because of their price and effectiveness, making them an infiltration unit on top of that makes them even more potent.
3) Their ambush damage makes quick work of any allied squads that happen to walk into it.
4) Abilities like sprint just make them even more mobile and damaging.
5) The G43 upgrade is cheap (45 ammo) and can be upgraded anywhere on the map. Why is it that almost all German weapon upgrades don't even require you be in your own territory? Meanwhile, Riflemen have to retreat back to your base just to get a BAR.
I suggest that they make their ambush damage come with veterancy instead of default, and maybe even move the camouflage to vet 2 or something. Their price needs an increase back to at least 290+ manpower, similar to pathfinders.
Stat-wise, I'm not sure that they would need a major nerf if they were increased in price. They would become much less prevalent if they were more expensive, as they were before their massive buff. Right now, I routinely see OKW players in team games simply skip volksgrenadiers alltogether and wait for their Jaegers, and get 4 squads because of how cheap they are, and how little time it takes for them to cooldown to spawn another.
They are especially strong against factions like USF that struggle to maintain a manpower balance since Riflemen are so expensive and underperforming until you get BARs.
Nice job! Adama
Now OKW JLI spams became so prevailing and annoying! Especially when the OverWatch commander also has leFH 105mm howitzer and section bombing. |
Please, how many maxim squads are considered spammable?
I saw lots of OST build 2 or 3 MG42s and countless MG bunkers. Why you, Axis fanboys, angry at build 2 or 3 maxim? |
The HQs aren't free. Their cost is shifted to the truck itself.
Now:
Medical HQ require a truck (100MP, 15Fuel) and a upgrade (200MP,25Fuel)
Mechanical HQ require a truck (100MP, 15Fuel) and a upgrade (200MP,45Fuel)
Schwerer Panzer HQ require a truck (100MP, 15Fuel) and a upgrade (200MP,120Fuel)
Are they cheaper or more expensive by your design? You design means that a OKW player did not get punished by a destroyed HQ, they just lose the cost of truck (200MP, 30Fuel). |
I don't agree with the HQ cost revision.
You are encouraging OKW player to build their HQs behind the nose of the Allies players by removing the cost of OKW HQs.
The high cost of the OKW HQs will force the OKW player weigh between gain and risk to put their HQs at front. Now you completely destroy it by those free HQs. |
Can we have a Soviet commander with Shock troopers and T34/85?
I didn't remembered we have such a combination. |
Penals are too efficient for their price, but I never felt I have problem countering them.
The reason is most Sov players only build T1 or T2, so they can rush for T-70. As a OKW player, every time I see penals, I will build AA HF to counter them.
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If we need to nerf penals, I think we need to redesign Sov's tech tree at the same time.
We only build T1 because we have teammate to provide mortars or AT guns.
When you finally climb in the front of the ladder, you will find a single AA HT would not work. A good Soviet player knows how to easily kick AA HT out of field. MG34 is a better choice. |