It's not. The idea of nerfing all other units because another one is outperformed is simply silly.
And why wouldn't conscript general performance be important? Last time I've checked the notes, they didn't state "Conscripts veterancy 3 bonus 10 % accuracy removed agaisnt grenadiers and volksgrenadeiers specifically". This is not Footmen Frenzy.
You argument is contradicts your claim. IF Grenadiers/VG are "underwhelming" it the conscripts that need a nerf and not the Grenadiers/VG that need a buff.
But it is a bad argument to begin with, each unit has an optimum power level and bringing it to that optimum power level is correct approach.
Number of units that are not at the optimum level is irrelevant.
I have no problem. LMG gren could use a buff, vet5 Volks maybe as well, but what have cons too do with that? They are not fighting just those two units.
There are all mainline infatry and core of their faction. How Cosncripts do against obers is less relevant on how they do against Grenadier/VG.
apart from the moving speed debuff, all other stat is the same, meaning the EHP and dmg output is the same, and in live they dont create any issues/complain about combat performance with 3 lmg setup.
The moving speed penalty is enough to keep the unit from fighting effectively.
The repair is on par with other engie, and the combat performance of it ALONE is nothing special.
the tech path to get to heavy engineer is related.
and what exactly match up that a heavy sapper with an vicker K alone can stand up for ?
The upgrade alone provide a solid combo, but doesnt dis out any thing special COMBAT-WISE (as you mostly concern about their combat capable), and if more weapon upgrads are stacked up, the cost kick in and is a drawback.
i will make it clear, being badly designed and being broken/OP are two difference thing that you are trying to mix up when picking up my line and assuming that we share opinion. And, you are deflecting away from the part that you have to provide your replay on testing that prove the OP in heavy sapper 3 lmgs combat performance.
I am not mixing anything up and I have not claim the the upgrade is "broken", that simply katitof.
Again, I personally consider LMG grens underwhelming, but in half of realistic scenarios neither side can leave cover due to taking damage from other squads or MGs, so in those static cases LMG grens are a good type of unit to compare. STG volks and 5m Grens prefer encounters at closer ranges or while mobile.
So let me get this straight:
LMG grenadiers are UP, VG are UP and Conscripts are up.
Since these units are fighting each other where does the problem lies? In riflemen and Tommies being OP?
and all you have said about them uptill then was EHP
i suggest you actually use them in live game to get a grip of what they are now, then may be provide some replay of your "tests"? a couple of k dmg again AI or some win on empty test map mean very little.
I live the are build in T1 and heavy sapper have moving penalty both changes are a huge buff to them.
there are nothing wrong with the fact that an unit can punch above there weight with that kind of invesment, i pay triple the amount of munition to get similar lever of performance.
The unit perform above it cost and role with heavy Sapper upgrade alone, it does need any other weapons upgrades, that 3 weapons option is simply the icing on the cake.
If you compare them with engineers from other faction it is evident.
I tested heavy sappers a few games (not competitive) and didin't found them OP at all. Also tested them with flame throwers so i can have them on the field earlier and actually do smth until upgrade is available. Actually, i am not sure they are even worth it. I mean, for that kind of muni investment, commandos with grenades and lmg can have a much bigger impact and chance to wipe.
I would like to see some good players try to play them, but haven't seen any1 until now.
You mean in live or a preview game?
Comparing to commandos an elite doctrinal unit makes little sense, compare them with other engineer types units and you might be surprised.
.....
Perhaps partially. It's no secret that Volks and Grens are currently considered udnerwhelming in the late game. But 5m grens and STG volks are not very good units to "benchmark" in cover to cover scenarios, I'd use LMG grens if anything. 5m grens bully conscripts out of the game in mid game and shred them extremely fast when cought in the open. STG makes volks immune to close range pushes from cons very soon into the game, so again, the unit kinda nullifies cons combat performance at certain stages of the game. 7m cons don't do any of that, they just trade well in cover to cover firefight, but they don't roll over Axis infantry at any stage of the game.
LMG grenadier are not a good benchmark either since the are meant to excel at long cover to cover fights and the punch above their cost in that particular scenario.
MR conscripts can simply ourah to them and beat them.
VSL grenadier already received a nerf (well deserved) and now will perform the same in cover to cover fights vs MR conscripts in ver 4 as they do in live.
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