Both at nade and Faust have the same damage, and at nade have faster aim time
Updated my error, oops!
However, you are technically incorrect about the aim times. Soviet and British AT nades both have 0.5-1s aiming time, US AT riflenade has 2s aiming time, and the Panzerfaust at 0.125s.
The difference you are looking for is the animation and wind up times: 1.5 seconds for Panzerfaust and 0.25 seconds for Sov/Brit AT nades. Combined with the aim time, that means in total Sov/Brit AT nades have 0.75-1.25 seconds before throwing the AT nade versus the Faust's 1.5 seconds. There is nothing we can do about the animation playback speed, but I doubt losing games because the Faust came off 0.5 seconds on average faster than the Sov/Brit AT nades is a common occurrence. Besides, being able to activate the snare earlier due to higher range partially offsets the higher wind up, since unlike Molotov versus Fantasy Flamenade, the projectile is homing, so in the end the difference is negligible.
AT nade is also on a unit that has sprint.
Conscripts have Oorah, but what other Allied AT nades exist on units with sprint? Do Riflemen and Sappers have sprint? Penals, Cav Rifles, and AT Sections don't have sprint either. OP is talking about all Allied AT nades being generally superior to Faust.
On the other hand, many Axis doctrinal units have snares even if they aren't designed as mainline replacements or dedicated AT squads: Osttruppen, Jager, Fallschirmjager. They have mainline replacements that also have snare OR AT upgrade (Panzerfusilier) as well. That's 3/4 combat capable infantry squads that can snare and also fight well against infantry at all stages of the game (if we ask Hans, that's 4/4). Meanwhile the Allied snare call ins are... Meme AT Partysans, AT Section, or Cav Rifles. The only combat-capable squad is Cav Rifles, which is 1/3.
Additionally, Fallschirmjagers can stealth + Faust, and Ambush Camo Grens can do the same. These doctrines are generally a lot more competitive choices than Soviet Tank Hunter or Partisan tactics, which include the only Allied units capable of doing the same. |
Faust vs at nades seem weirdly given.
Allies have faster better light vehicles but Faust is less effective against them because of lower range, need los, and long animation times.
At nades goes off much faster and even faster with oohrah.
I would switch the 2 abilities if it make more sense
I stll say cons also move faster than grens. Will test in weekend with the suggested test map. Like really no one noticed the faster cons squad?
You have severe observation bias.
The differences between AT nades and Faust are miniscule, but not including engine-related bugs, Wehr Faust is the best snare; it has highest penetration and highest range, however slight those advantages are. It has the added bonus of being able to target structures to help destroy caches, which Allied AT nades cannot. And that's not even mentioning how Grens have Faust immediately while Allied squads need a sidetech, squad upgrade, or veterancy for snares.
Nobody noticed the faster cons squad because the squads (and all infantry for that matter) have identical movement speeds.
I.D.E.N.T.I.C.A.L.
You are wasting your time with these tests. |
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I think allowing live 7-man cons to have slot items AND 7-man is way too overkill. The survivability increase with DPS increase plus all the extras of 7-man are too powerful to co-exist with slot items fairly.
7-man cons are easily one of the best upgrades in the whole game. So much so that it makes doctrinal items (that were previously considered "good") like PPSh or SVT40 cons less desirable.
If slot item cons with the upgrade is to be considered, then the 7-man model will need a serious nerf or tone down to compensate.
I wouldn't mind a rework of Mobilized Reserves that performs like this:
* Lower cover bonus (15-25% weapon cooldown reduction instead of 30%)
* No extra man
* No cheaper reinforce (current reinforce time bonus is okay)
* Revert locked behind tech back to T4
* Allow for slot item/doc upgrades to be used (PPSh should take 1 slot size)
* Global upgrade for all Cons
I also wouldn't mind seeing Mobilized Reserves auto-unlocking molotov+at nade if they weren't already purchased, but hey, that's just me. |
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It should be noted that it is impossible to "fix deathloop" properly for anything on a wheeled carriage - this means all AT guns and Soviet MGs.
Pak40 is already considered the most capable AT gun. It shouldn't be made any more durable than what it currently is, especially if other AT guns don't receive a similar buff. |
Any stronger maxim, we need to look at wehr counter
Right now, they are just enough to handle maxim.
And again i disagree maxim spamming is because of poorer suppression
Spamming is to make use of its fast reposition and higher model counts.
Come on now...
The options for Wehr vs Soviet MG are the same options for Soviet vs Wehr MG: mortars, snipers, and flanking.
As a bonus for Wehr, if Soviets have Maxim out, that player probably doesn't have a sniper for countersniping, allowing you to fully utilize Ostheer sniper's fast rate of fire.
Why should Ostheer counters against Maxim need to be any more effective than Soviet counters against MG42? |
Suggestion 1: The beat way to counteract the deathloop is putting the mg behind heavy cover to make models resilient and allow retreat to take place. However against the Ostheer, this is frequently punished by rifle grenades which leads to painful wipes. This creates a frustrating “put maxim in cover and lose it to RG, or out of cover and lose it to deathloop dynamic. I think nerfing one end of this equation with either rifle nades dealing less damage to green cover units or maxim crews getting damage reduction to explosives in green cover.
My suggestion from another thread:
What about nerfing its cone to DsHk levels and then giving a cover bonus ala Tommies, except instead of cooldown and accuracy it gets more suppression and its .50 cal style arc back? (No arc changes in garrison)
Basically it would live suppression with lower cone out of cover, but better suppression with live cone in cover.
and reduce price to 240
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What about nerfing its cone to DsHk levels and then giving a cover bonus ala Tommies, except instead of cooldown and accuracy it gets more suppression and its .50 cal style arc back? (No arc changes in garrison)
Basically it would live suppression with lower cone out of cover, but better suppression with live cone in cover.
and reduce price to 240 |
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Honestly, the only problem I have with Maxim is its absurdly expensive price for what it brings to the table. It should be brought in-line with the other HMG squads, or other HMG squads made more expensive to be in-line with Maxim.
The last patch has done wonders for blob suppression. While it's still weak against single squads, I feel like that would be totally acceptable if the Maxim cost 240 manpower. I'd love a deathloop fix but sadly that's impossible and nothing can really properly compensate for it
A long time ago, Maxim spam was a thing due to normal cost, fast set-up, sprint, and low suppression (meaning you would need more than 1 to have them work in the first place). The price, set-up, and the suppression (at least vs blobs) were all increased since then, and sprint has been removed. Now, it does not noticeably set up faster than Axis HMGs. The whole Maxim Spam strat now is much less viable than Ostheer MG42 spam anyway, since producing nothing but MG42 and Pioneers is rewarded with early HQ Panzergrenadiers. In comparison, Maxim spam wouldn't have elite infantry backing it up, only shitty conscripts until T3 is built. It would also have less suppression and cover less ground.
I see no reason why the community needs to fear Maxim spam in today's meta, and thereby, no reason for the Maxim to remain unreasonably cost-inefficient. |
As for sniper training in WWII, you are correct that the US Army did not have a formal service wide sniper program. Sniper programs however did exist within the Army and Marines during WWII, they just weren’t like they are today. They were divisional and regimental level schools out on by individual units that wanted to do it, so US snipers varied wildly in quality. Many divisions had no trained snipers like you said, and used their sniper rifles in what we today would call a designated marksman role. But that’s not always the case. An interesting note I found in a book called “US Infantry Weapons in WWII and Korea”, a soldier recalled being sent to sniper training where he was instructed by an FBI man who was also Olympic shooter. Crazy story that I didn’t totally believe until I found an article about this man in a magazine. The FBI man was undoubtably Walter Walsh, and this is a great example of how US sniper training did exist, but was also very different from unit to unit.
Also, I’m sorry if any of this came off as rude, I don’t intend to be rude to anyone here, but I do get very passionate about history sometimes. 
Don't worry, not offended. I get passionate too about history  and its actually really good to see other people on the forum that still care about it rather than the "iTs JusT a gAeM bRo, no nEEd foR hIsToRY" that is spoken here far too often.
Interesting, not aware of the ad-hoc sniper schools on various unit levels. Still though, since they weren't officially instated, and there are already existing candidates for reworking into potential anti-sniper units, I'd still say we shouldn't add a USF sniper. CoH2 has enough rarities and oddities, and it doesn't need more imo. |
Your history is incorrect sir.
Each US infantry platoon was equipped with one sniper rifle, to be issued at the discretion of the platoon leader (a 1st or 2nd Lieutenant) so the US most certainly had snipers during WWII, in fact probably more than the Germans had when you consider that each US platoon had one sniper multiplied across the entire US Army.
Rangers were special assault troops, not recon troops. They were tasked with special assault missions and were organized accordingly with extra sub machine guns, light machine guns and other direct firing weapons while lacking in heavier weapons like AT guns, 81mm mortars, water cooled machine guns and artillery.
On your point about USF and OKW not needing snipers due to their other counters is a totally valid opinion. I think USF and OKW getting snipers would be interesting, but it’s not necessary for balance. Your point about voice lines for them is a good point too. OKW could just copy WM sniper lines, but the USF one would probably just end up using Pathfinder dialogue and seem odd. (Too bad you can’t just import vCoH lines. I miss the old ‘boogeyman’. Lol)
With all due respect, my history is mostly correct.
As for the US Rangers, I'm no expert, but I was under the impression they handled probing attacks and long distance recon patrols. I'll take your word for it.
However, for the US sniper discussion, I'll need to elaborate: just because they had a scoped Springfield rifle in a platoon does not mean the US army had snipers. They are still designated marksmen attached to the platoon (not squad, sorry - my bad). Neither the army nor the marines had sniper schools or sniper tactical doctrines. Designated marksmen just happened to be good shots, and did not undergo the intense specialist training that British, German, and Soviet snipers endured. You could call this a battle of semantics, but the fact was that US "snipers" were far less capable of performing sniper duties than their counterparts because they were not trained specifically to do so - they were instead expected to perform as an infantryman first; the "sniper" role came second, whereas proper snipers spent years in dedicated schools and were generally not expected the fill the role of a regular infantryman as they were far more valuable. I still stand by my point that there were no US snipers, only designated marksmen.
Also, to add to the practical modding problems, I should mention that there are no scoped Springfield models in game; the only scoped American rifle is the Pathfinder M4C, which I'm pretty sure was only in the TOC very late in the war and practically saw no use during WWII. The closest you can get is either a scoped Mosin or Enfield. As a side note, it is not currently possible to assign voices from one faction to another. The JLI are an exception that they are included in both faction voice packs, but unfortunately they are not the rule. |
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