I really don't want these massive, sweeping changes like making the KT doctrinal or swapping the Jackson for the M10. The more I think about it, I don't really know how far behind I can even get behind Elefant/Jagdtiger nerfs, either. I only have a small handful of minor complaints about balance right now. I think making huge changes will only make things worse.
TL;DR Don't change the game too drastically
herp derp lets just change the whole game?
So many of these gripes don't take into account many of the drawbacks of some of these units. Like the Sturmtiger isn't a fully automatic death machine. Slow, painfully long to fire, even more painfully long reload (in which it can be decrewed easily, and stolen), and fairly expensive. Not mention locked into a mainly BS doctrine.
What he said. |
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Oh! You know one thing I forgot to mention? The tooltip for the British tank commander upgrade hasn't been updated to reflect its new stats. Just an FYI. |
Could you provide me with a list of 4v4 maps you found to your liking?
My pleasure! As a matter of fact, voila, I have such a list right here!  Please consider making this a high priority if it's within your power. All my mates agree that new maps would be a godsend, even more so than balance changes.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/60448/please-please-put-in-more-automatch-4v4-maps/page/1#post_id603518
I'm at the point where I don't even care which ones, and would be thrilled to just throw in a dozen or so maps at once. The current ones are so stale that anything new would be welcome, and there are plenty of good ones among the sea of crappy 4v4 maps.
We could, alternatively fix USF popcap abuse by making decrewed tanks retain their popcap. That would require us to rework a crapton of USF squad popcap values, otherwise USF late-game is toast.
I agree it's a tricky dilemma to solve. I just hope USF popcap abuse doesn't lead to getting rid of one of the most flavorful aspects of the USF lategame (vehicle decrewing).
What I meant by nerfing Calliope to Katyusha levels, I meant nerfing alpha strike. The current barrage pattern is 10-8. We could turn it into 6-6-6 or something like that and see how it works.
Ah, that makes sense. Carry on then.
The moment 2 Fireflies join forces, it is impossible for Axis tanks to penetrate Fireflies.. unless there are heavy TDs involved, which we also nerf.
You know, I can actually agree. The Tulips are pretty obnoxious; I'm just hesitant to change them because of 1) Firefly's cost and 2) Firefly's slow fire rate. If these things were tuned, I probably wouldn't complain.
M20 would automatically become more reliable by the nerf to heavy TDs. No longer will the minelayer/scout unit of the USF be blown up just because an Elefant/JT stared at it for a second
That could work, though all light vehicles require immense babysitting to keep alive in the late game regardless of Jadg/Elefant.
We can't fix this; if we fix it, this might break Sherman smoke to malfunction like Cromwell smoke shell (Fixed Cromwell smoke shells now also cause Cromwells to stop moving).
You can issue a movement command right after the smoke command, and the Sherman can keep moving.
Aww, I'm sorry to hear this. I've learned to deal with it; it's just a minor annoyance.
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First off: can we please get some workshop 4v4 maps put in the ladder next patch? I'm practically begging here. Anyway...
I highly support the following changes:
- Nerfing Stuka dive bomb. It's highly unpredictable considering how many places it could land in a 4v4, and it nullifies the Soviet howitzers
- Nerfing Calliope health
- Changing how demo charges work
- Toning down the Elefant/Jagdtiger. Open maps like Vielsalm are insta-vetoes for Allies purely on the basis of these two tanks. They're just i-win buttons in the right maps. You need to be careful, though, because there is a very fine line where even a slight change will nerf them out of the game.
There are a few I don't like:
- Priest should remain de-crewable if only to let it repair itself. USF late game sucks enough as it is. I would honestly be okay with the Calliope getting this ability back if its health gets lowered (which I support)
- Nerfing the Calliope barrage. If it's going down to Katyusha levels, then why should it cost 140 fuel? Just keep it the way it is. The health is the only problem with it.
- Sturmtiger is already such a situational, gimmicky unit. I'm fine with lowering its damage to tanks, but if you make it incompatible with the KT, it's gonna be seen even less.
- Heavily nerfing Firefly performance, at least with its current price. I'd prefer just leaving them how they are.
- Changing howitzer costs. They're fine as they are.
There are some other changes that I feel need mentioning:
- Soviets and Wehrmacht need a repair speed buff and/or repair should give vet (for all repair units)
- Soviets and Wehrmacht need a forward retreat point. I know this is controversial, but the lack of one is such a massive disadvantage compared to the new factions. I don't want them removed from other factions; they're fun to saturate with arty. They're a good risk/reward that I'd hate to see removed.
- Katyusha shouldn't have a creeping barrage. The vet 1 ability should be a full-salvo barrage, considering how that's they were actually used. Hell, I'd be okay with that just being the default firing mode. Katyushas never did this funky delay-fire.
- ISU-152 is a worthless piece of garbage. There is absolutely no reason to use this unit ever. It can't rotate to save its life, it can barely pen tanks, it can't reliably shoot over sight blockers, and even the HE shells usually kill one model, two if you're lucky.
- IS-2 could use a slight accuracy buff.
- The ratio of effort of setting up British emplacement versus countering emplacements is way out of wack. Brace is the main culprit here. The only reliable counter are Ost's doctrinal mortar halftracks with the incendiary barrage.
- USF needs a more reliable way to give vision to Jacksons
- Shermans shouldn't stop moving when launching their smoke bombs. This seems like an oversight that's never been fixed.
- Current Maxim needs a slight suppression buff. It's horrible right now (though I like the new vet 1 ability).
- MG-34 should suck a lot less. I'd support increasing its price if it meant better stats. Also, can we change its sound to something more menacing? It sounds like a peashooter.
- It feels totally wrong thematically to have penal battalions as Soviets' frontline infantry.Penals should be a more specialized unit; buff conscripts to compensate, even if only a late game buff since they barely scale. I would recommend experimenting with making penals doctrinal, then putting guards in the special rifle command.
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It could come within 5 minutes and it would still be hot trash. That's only slight hyperbole. The unit does about as much damage as warm bath water while having the maneuverability of a slug. |
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Oh God, please do not nerf repair speeds of the newer factions down to pitiful EFA levels. Just normalize them with WFA or meet somewhere in the middle. I don't know about you guys, but I have never once thought "God, I sure wish my sturmpios repaired slower. I hate having intense, fast-paced games with lots of tank combat." Hell, not even back during the initial release of the game did I think "Golly gee, Soviet engies repair at the perfect rate! I love spending half the game repairing T34s!"
Man, only on forums would people ever advocate returning everything to pitiful Soviet repair speeds. No, just no. Please God no. If you do do this (please no), at least give engies veterancy for repairing. |
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Forward retreat points also need to be either added to both Soviets and Wehrmacht, or they need to be removed from OKW, USF, and Brits. I'd prefer the former, but the lack of forward retreat points is way too much of a handicap for the old factions compared to the new ones, especially on large maps and in team games. |
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I really don't relish the thought of yet another German faction. I'd love to see Japan, Italy, or an "Ostfront" faction which is a coalition of Romania, Hungary, and Bulgaria. Even though they used a lot of German vehicles, it would still be unique enough to feel very different than German 3.0. |
I'm begging here. We haven't gotten 4v4 maps in so long, and the current ones are stale now. I'm so hungry for different maps that I'd even be willing to put up with terrible maps like S(h)ittard Summer for the sake of variety. It would be nice to get more Relic maps, though I'm far past expecting that to happen. Just any maps at all from the community would satiate me. I don't want to hear these excuses that it's undoable because I know there's plenty enough that at least 3-4 could be put in. Hell, I'll even list some on the workshop that might work, though I'm not even picky. Please please please.
Elst Outskirts (the 4v4 version)
Road to Oosterbeek
Road to Bastogne
Drachenwald
Bieville-Orne
Eberswalde
Kursk
Bois Jacques
Pinsk Marshes
Sword Beach |
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I remember when we all used to dogpile on Relic for over-nerfing units in patches instead of gradually changing units. So now that the community has the power to change the game, you basically nerf everything about the Comet all at once, AND increase its pop? What are you doing? The Comet is good, but it's not *that* good where it needed a nerf this damn hard.
By the way, I'm against upping the population of pretty much anything right now. Army sizes are good now, don't make them smaller. Ffs. |
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