This is my 2 cents on how rangers should be implemented:
2CP Rangers 380MP: 5 man squad with 15% received accuracy buff. They have sprint, cooked grenades. They are all armed with Garands. Unit has unique option to pick up to 3 weapons instead of the normal 2. Vet 1 bonus is sticky bombs - AT 'grenade' that does little damage but higher potential for more severe snares.
2CP Thompson SMG: Adds Thompson to weapon rack 1x for 30MU OR 2x thopmsons cost 60 MU and only take up 1 weapon slot. In that case Rangers would only have 2 weapon slots available.
Bad idea, Rangers would be just Veteran Riflemen 2.0, and Weapon Racks make every other infantry clone Shocks. Not to mention both unlock at the same time. And for 30 munitions each? lol get real.
I do think the passive sprint idea would be nice, but I'd think it might be too powerful if it was a vet0 thing, maybe a vet1 unlock? |
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Not their priority.
Bet it's higher than War Spoils though, because new commanders at least bring some level of guarantee for profit. But then Rangers through Fox Company themselves is DLC for AA... |
Airborne blokes with red berets so OP can finally shut up about it.
Or actually infantry with green berets to troll him even more.  |
So a copy of Paratroopers with thompsons ?
Or Maybe the rangers wee see in the campain ? 6 ( or 5 i dont remember ) guys with thompsons, can upgrade with 2 Shreks, and the cool thing is that, they can equip or not them ( like Sturmpioneer with minesweeper )
I don't think that's a very fair comparison, given that paratroopers can drop anywhere on the map, can upgrade to either Thompson or LMGs, and can reinforce near beacons; Rangers ought to have none of those while still having hefty manpower cost, so if anything Rangers are less efficient. By that logic, Obersoldaten are complete clones of Volks without panzerschreck, and that unit's not only in the game, but also non-doctrinal.
IIRC Rangers in Ardennes Assault are only 4 men, and armed with Thompsons and can swap for bazooka/ panzerschreck if you pick those perks. They're not so much Paratrooper clones but Panzergrenadier clones. Even if you applied all the perks, Rangers in AA still differed considerably than paratroopers, the comparison is almost as close as Conscripts goes to T-34.
And it's not like we're suggesting this call-in comes with Pershing and Jumbo alongside P-47 rocket strike. It would be almost as ridiculous as Mechanized Assault (which does just that, so...). |
Stock Thompsons and have the ability to upgrade to recoiless rifles for an anti tank capablity. Think of them like a panzergren squad...almost. Also, give them a hand grenade that isn't worth shit like the normal riflemen grenade. Maybe give them a satchel, or something. I didn't put much thought into this (lol); i don't make games nor do I handle balancing of said games. But with that being said, I find what I just said (or something similar) to be incredibly reasonable to ask for.
RRs were less effective against armour, and in any case it just replaces bazooka rack even if the Ranger unit is expensive: at least Paratroopers don't upgrade to BARs and in any case the upgrades themselves cost more. That said I don't mind Rangers being an AT squad+SMG squad, at least this means they're still no match for Obers at long range and still need to close distance to rip Volksblobs apart. Having tried Rangers in Ardennes Assault, they weren't exactly powerful given their characteristics.
I also don't think Rangers being a tad similar to units like Paratroopers would be THAT much of a bad idea. I mean you got Panzerfusiliers being quite similar to Volksgrenadiers, except for G43s/ flares/ AT rifle grenade. Factor these out and all you get are slightly more expensive Volks with no panzerschreck. And they as a unit seem just fine, they still get grenades. |
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Just make it so infantry destroy it when they walk over it, so worst case scenario you just need one squad to do the shovelling work and the rest of the game you no longer suffer it.
I mean don't vehicles do this already?
You can even make it so blizzards will "reset" the deep snow tiles, so that mechanic can have an equilibrium/ reset function in relevant winter maps. There, problem solved, presto: deep snow is still there, but not always there. |
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Some valid points. But some things to consider:
-What do we (or should we) expect out of a Ranger squad unit? An uber version of paratroopers or a specialized unit with different roles and expectations? SHould they be geared more for anti-tank duties or just a Ober clone?
-Doctrinal or non-doc? I personally think it being doctrinal is more or less a no-brainer, given CoH1, Fox Company and the fact that adding new non-doctrinal units would quite obviously cause a balance nightmare.
-Unit roles: IMO anti-tank and scouting capability of USF is a bit lean, so I think Rangers ought to fill one or more roles that expand on these.
-Combat roles: More or less ideal for short-ranged, seeing as every other short-ranged option is both doctrinal and restricted to specific units (vehicle crews, paratroopers). We already have Riflemen for the long-medium range fighting, so it's hardly outrageous to suggest a unit call-in with short-range firepower as their forte.
-USF was (originally) designed without a unit like Rangers in mind, so trying to design such a unit into the faction in any way would be difficult. AT stunning (re buttoning) for example risks making Stuart obsolete, and making them spawn with bazookas makes the bazooka rack nearly obsolete.
-Because of the above, you may need to tweak other units like Paratroopers in order to accommodate Ranger, which opens up a can of worms in regards to people's preferences (re "dont touch my paratroopers you entitled nub") and balance. |
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Weather effects could be useful as tactical flavour in winder maps. That said, the way Blizzards are designed, doesn't really offer this because things like off-map abilities are removed. Which is fine, but your men also freeze to death and you have vision reduction. The only "upside" to Blizzards is that the same applies to the enemy.
I just think Blizzards and weather in this game should be fleshed out a bit more to allow for more tactical options when playing, and that at present, all it does is really just gimp everything, instead of changing the way you play, you just play with one hand tied behind your back. |
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You know I've tried actually looking up where people got the idea of Volksgrenadiers = MP44-heavy users, but I've not found one source that supports that. Of course we got this picture (which is everyone's argument to support the idea), but haven't found neither context nor detailed information from it. |
About the assault-officer - if it moved from doctrine in the basic structure of the OKW units only one unit on the battlefield.
Its task is to strengthen the OKW infantry at an early stage and to maintain its survivability under enemy fire.
I watched a lot of games against OKW USA and the USSR - against rifles OKW volksgrenadier even as some, but against the Maxim gun+ recruits they are inferior even with the assault engineers.
The main reason for the construction of 6-7 units of volksgrenadiers is an attempt to repel the attacks and to hold the territory. Due to the number of rifles.
Let's look at the recruits of the red army - doctrines allow them to issue PPSH-41 - giving them DPS and survivability at the expense of the number of soldiers in the unit.
-What do you replace this doctrinal unit call-in with if it's taken from a commander and made into core army?
-Numbers is the reason why Volksgrenadiers are used in quantity, for short-ranged jobs you train Sturmpioniers. Where do they factor into this step? Sturmpioniers for their part are pretty good at the short-ranged job too.
-Conscript Ppsh-41 Kits don't improve close-range DPS but does not affect survivability or reduce the number of men in a squad. The only reason THAT idea works is because Soviets have zero non-doctrinal short-ranged infantry. And Shock Troops work much better due to grenades and armour, so the argument about Ppsh-1 upgrade is moot, it's actually one of the sh***ier upgrades.
STG-44 it's too big for volksgrenadiers. According to the version of the game - it recruits + a few veterans. So they need to upgrade the squad leader, as a 6 member group. And it needs to be armed with a good weapon, which corresponds to the unit - and this GW-43. Also there remains the problem of smoke and flame throwers for OKW as a fraction.
MP-40 will allow OKW to suppress spam tactics Maxim machine guns at the expense of call from the flanks and strong DPS in melee.
According to the text of the game. Which means jack sh** when you consider all the other unit/ bulletin/ ability descriptions that have similar errors.
Giving the "squad leader" a superior weapon does what exactly? One guy with G43 isn't going to make a difference, not unless you want the other unique attributes like sniping, in which case they turn from being too similar to Sturms to being too similar to Jaegers/ Panzerfusiliers ...which is what other people have already said.
Smoke and flamethrowers are another issue, and MP40s/ sergeant for Volksgrenadiers doesn't touch that. I recommend you make a separate thread on that. |
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