Wehr weak penetration

Pen buff using HEAT will put pressure on Allies heavies and we see less complains about churchills IS2 and what not.

It affects nothing else.

Perfect. Solution.

another point about cost effectiveness, Panther wasted 2 vet XP on blitz and useless +10% armor.

Pen buff using HEAT will put pressure on Allies heavies and we see less complains about churchills IS2 and what not.

It affects nothing else.

Perfect. Solution.

the tiger is SUPPOSED to have less pen than the IS-2 you doof... it has higher base DPS mobility in exchange for armor and penetration... why cant you understand that?

another point about cost effectiveness, Panther wasted 2 vet XP on blitz and useless +10% armor.

the only real waste is this dumbass thread

I like how IS2 started with lesser gun range, to equalised after both vetted.

IS2 has the new explosive ability while Blitz on Tiger is questionable, does blitz even blitz on heavy now? And against 60TD....

Tiger have faster gun, but other factors like IS2 faster repositioning and faster gun tracking, it is not so clear cut in heat of battle. That is you need to lock on the target first before the next processing.

But IS2 higher armor and slightly higer pen are more clear cut advantages in battle.

Tiger follows the theme of less pen in Wehr arsenal.

Faster ROF is the MOST clear cut advantage in the heat of battle...

Faster ROF is the MOST clear cut advantage in the heat of battle...

Mostly if you have 60 range and at a safety distance and need not reposition your rear/side armor...

you know what? screw this.... everytime youre gonna make a new thread... or even make a new post... im gonna ask you this one question

playercard please?

I see there are some who seems angry or want to quickly shut this down.

When a groundbreaker tries to challenge the old held beliefs, but outdated ones nonetheless, there are those who are afraid of the truth revealing for change...

your ENTIRE argument is unsubstantiated... you have NOTHING to back up any of your claims and ignore facts like some dumbass flat earther... you deserve to be shut down for being no better than some tin foil hat conspirator

I put numbers. You put CAPS.
I did my part.

you mean this?

Churchill Croc/AVRE : 290
Churchill : 240
Comet: 290
Pershing: 270
IS2: 375
ISU152: 340
KV1: 270
KV2: 300
KV8: 260

vs
Brumbar front/side armor 240, vet 288
Panther front/side armor 260, vet 286
Tiger front/side armor: 300


well youve ignored a large number of axis armor

KT 375
ele 400
JT 525
JP4 230


youve also posted penetration data that did not support your claim of wehrmacht having weaker penetration...

the panther is tied with the jackson in terms of penetration

Panther: 260/240/220
Jackson: 260/240/220
SU85: 240/230/220
FF: 260/240/210


youre also ignoring AT gun penetration... where OST is tied with UKF

Pak40: 210/200/190
6pdr: 210/200/190
Zis-3: 200/190/180
rak43: 200/190/180
57mm: 150/140/130

and of course medium penetration... where OST has the highest long range penetration and decent midrange penetration...

crom: 135/120/105
M4: 140/120/100
P4: 125/115/110
T-34: 120/100/80

and infantry AT... where OST/OKW win outright

panzerschreck: 180/170/160
bazooka: 130/120/110
PIAT: 130/116/110
PTRS: 100/85/70


i can humiliate you further by delving deeper into armor comparisons aswell... but the amount of information might overwhelm your insignificant mind...


substandard penetration my arse... caps my arse... stfu and l2p

you mean this?

Churchill Croc/AVRE : 290
Churchill : 240
Comet: 290
Pershing: 270
IS2: 375
ISU152: 340
KV1: 270
KV2: 300
KV8: 260

vs
Brumbar front/side armor 240, vet 288
Panther front/side armor 260, vet 286
Tiger front/side armor: 300


well youve ignored a large number of axis armor

KT 375
ele 400
JT 525
JP4 230


youve also posted penetration data that did not support your claim of wehrmacht having weaker penetration...

the panther is tied with the jackson in terms of penetration

Panther: 260/240/220
Jackson: 260/240/220
SU85: 240/230/220
FF: 260/240/210

Well - what about rate of fire, target aquistion connected with turret rotation speed, accuracy, damage on deflection, range, etc. I understand he posted stuff based on his "feel" of the game. It is pretty normal not being able to desribe it. What he probably meant is the situation when you take into account all the factors. The result will probably be that panther is not as fearsome as it seems to be and does not stand up to the myth that is is so good. Basically all the buffs to allied tanks and reductions to axis (especially) ost tanks mean that all of them are really comparable. Yet, wehen you include the price/value parameters often the higher price of a panther and other axis vehicles might not be justified. They just perform not much better to cheaper tanks. Tbh often they are not that siginficantly worse in real combat situations considering their price and tech requirements. Especially, when you look at how powerful they can be against tanks and infantry, and how many extra abilities they have.

youre also ignoring AT gun penetration... where OST is tied with UKF

Pak40: 210/200/190
6pdr: 210/200/190
Zis-3: 200/190/180
rak43: 200/190/180
57mm: 150/140/130

and you are ignoring rate of fire and gun's arcs as well as how durable their crew is. Pak is only marginally better (which means almost nothing in a real game scenario - 10 more penetration - ridiculous), while othe at guns have wider arcs of fire and often higher rate of fire.

and of course medium penetration... where OST has the highest long range penetration and decent midrange penetration...

crom: 135/120/105
M4: 140/120/100
P4: 125/115/110
T-34: 120/100/80

and again the differences are too tiny to be significant. Rate of fire, speed, turret riotation will be more important here. Again the price of p4 might not be justified here, the price of a panther might also be just too high.

and infantry AT... where OST/OKW win outright

panzerschreck: 180/170/160
bazooka: 130/120/110
PIAT: 130/116/110
PTRS: 100/85/70

...and again that is forgetting too many "details" on your part. Rate of fire is higher on the bazooka and and ptrs, there are different stats for bazookas on elite squads. Also you are ignoring the fact that accuracy is worse on shrecks, and that you can only equip the most expensive inf squads with them, while allies get many more squads with those hand held at options, so the density of them will be much higher. They also deal dmg even on deflection, etc. You are not drawing the full picture here. Think of satchels, for exaple that prevent dives to get those long range units.

i can humiliate you further by delving deeper into armor comparisons aswell... but the amount of information might overwhelm your insignificant mind...


substandard penetration my arse... caps my arse... stfu and l2p

that is just impolite, please be polite to your game commrades

Claim- Ost has low pen
Evidence - no they dont
Rebuttal-what about target acquisition and rate of fire and turret rotation?
Straws- grasped at

Probably about time to shut this thread down. I think it's served its purpose... What ever it happened to be...

Claim- Ost has low pen
Evidence - no they dont
Rebuttal-what about target acquisition and rate of fire and turret rotation?
Straws- grasped at

Probably about time to shut this thread down. I think it's served its purpose... What ever it happened to be...

but that is the key of the problem - many players feel certain faction uderperform, when it is the axis the threads are too quickly closed or laughed at.

What about comet vs panther? Which is better?

but that is the key of the problem - many players feel certain faction uderperform, when it is the axis the threads are too quickly closed or laughed at.

People can feel how they like. That's the nice thing about stats. I could "feel" that vet 3 7 man cons are not as durable as a mortar crew but I'd be wrong.

What about comet vs panther? Which is better?

At what?

Because against each other, panther roflstomps comet.

At what?

Because against each other, panther roflstomps comet.

I feel it doesn't. Comet is potent agains inf and panther. 1v1 panther will usually win but with very little health. One piat shot and its toast.

I feel it doesn't. Comet is potent agains inf and panther. 1v1 panther will usually win but with very little health. One piat shot and its toast.

What you feel doesn't matter. Stats are what matters. And if you learn to read stats you will realize that Panther stomps Comet due to more HP, less reload, more penetration and more range.

Comet
160 DPS
800 HP
average chance to pen Panther: 73%
5.9-6.4 reload
same accuracy 0.06/0.045/0.035
range 45

Panther
160 DPS
960 HP
5.2 - 5.6 reload
average chance to pen Comet: 82.8%
range 50
same accuracy 0.06/0.045/0.035