I've been primarily a Soviet player for a long time because I like the history and I don't like the waiting times as Germans.
I have however tried Germans recently to see what they are like.
I'm amazed. All their units are very effective, Pgrens are crazy effective, Grens with LMG just drill straight through cons, molotovs are a concern by nothing more than that. When I bring out an elefant there's literally no counter. A lowly Ostwind I was expecting to die (because they seem to die a lot when I come across them as Soviets) instead found itself on vet 3 and cheerfully blitzing away from SU-85 with that silly race car engine noise. I don't know myself with all the combos I can do, all the awesome elite infantry I have, all the options, having literally a possible counter to everything the Soviets can bring out in one building. (T3)
I am just appalled... No wonder matchmaking is so skewed. I have to wonder at the quality of the opponents I am put up against. I haven't had the greatest successes with Germans because I'm still learning the proper ins and outs but man... I'm just appalled at the difference between them and the Soviets.
Shocked at how easy Germans are.
25 Oct 2013, 13:21 PM
#1
Posts: 1042
25 Oct 2013, 13:32 PM
#2
Posts: 1678 | Subs: 5
Not only are you shocked, you're appalled as well?!
Oh lordy!
Oh lordy!
25 Oct 2013, 13:37 PM
#3
2 
Posts: 1108
ohh my gosh are you ? jesus christ....
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25 Oct 2013, 13:55 PM
#4
2 
Posts: 2181
Just put mgs in houses and get pgrens amirite
25 Oct 2013, 14:01 PM
#5
Posts: 135
soviet cry thread. omg easy mode germans. do you realize that your elo starts over when you switch sides? you are playing noobs.
25 Oct 2013, 14:10 PM
#6
1 Posts: 1006
I know this will probably turn into "your a soviet fan" or "your a german fan" thread but I'm just giving my opinion here.
Being ranked 500 with both armies, I personally find Ostheer to be easier.
The hardest early-mid game soviet unit for the Ostheer imo are the Shocktroops. So get those if you are playing as soviet. They are the equivalent to pgrens but with a 6 man squad and smoke to either flank an MG or get out of trouble.
Being ranked 500 with both armies, I personally find Ostheer to be easier.
The hardest early-mid game soviet unit for the Ostheer imo are the Shocktroops. So get those if you are playing as soviet. They are the equivalent to pgrens but with a 6 man squad and smoke to either flank an MG or get out of trouble.
25 Oct 2013, 14:38 PM
#7
Posts: 760
I find Germans easier because thier teching is so easy and smooth , compared to the Soviet tech system. Combined arms is so much easier to pull off and you don't have to relay on doctrines.
25 Oct 2013, 14:49 PM
#8
Posts: 915
Being ranked in top 100 as germans and creeping up to top 100 as soviets, I find Soviets a much more versatile army (combined arms). But I also find the soviets much more cheesy and gimmicky.. Between oorahs, snares, easymode snipers, rams, fireballs, and tanks that can see for miles, the soviets are a little easier to me. It did take me a while to get use to them (still kind of confused) but this comes from a player who has played primarily Germans since vCOH and never touched panzer elite, brits, or americans. So it took me a little longer to get use to the soviets.
I still have fun with both factions and lately I find myself playing more soviets because I like the t34/at gun combo. I really feel part of the Soviet army as my 2-3 t34s swarm german defense positions followed by Shocks and Cons! ooooooraaaaaahhhh!! The throw in the awesome IL2 run (DOESNT NEED A NERF BTW) and the faction gets pretty fun to watch.
I still have fun with both factions and lately I find myself playing more soviets because I like the t34/at gun combo. I really feel part of the Soviet army as my 2-3 t34s swarm german defense positions followed by Shocks and Cons! ooooooraaaaaahhhh!! The throw in the awesome IL2 run (DOESNT NEED A NERF BTW) and the faction gets pretty fun to watch.
26 Oct 2013, 18:15 PM
#9
![avatar of =][=mmortal](/uploads/avatar/6497.jpg?updated=1372535109)
Posts: 215
from my other thread which touches on this:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/9633/feedback-needed-so-explain-to-me...
"3. New players will have trouble playing soviets because 1 on 1 units will lose to their ostheer counterpart. On the other hand a pro with good micro can use every unit's strengths at the same time for perfect combined arms. I don't believe the germans have an equivalent meta that flourishes in high level play and rewards skillful micro to that extent.
Everyone likes to claim german is OP because it takes less skill to use them... but that myth is brought back to reality when high level play just demonstrates the units arent strong enough to handle soviet role specialization (snipers, su85s, t70s) in a close match, short of a significant failure in play by soviet micro."
http://www.coh2.org/topic/9633/feedback-needed-so-explain-to-me...
"3. New players will have trouble playing soviets because 1 on 1 units will lose to their ostheer counterpart. On the other hand a pro with good micro can use every unit's strengths at the same time for perfect combined arms. I don't believe the germans have an equivalent meta that flourishes in high level play and rewards skillful micro to that extent.
Everyone likes to claim german is OP because it takes less skill to use them... but that myth is brought back to reality when high level play just demonstrates the units arent strong enough to handle soviet role specialization (snipers, su85s, t70s) in a close match, short of a significant failure in play by soviet micro."
26 Oct 2013, 18:16 PM
#10
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
26 Oct 2013, 18:28 PM
#11
Posts: 878
Hahaha...As an upper intermediate recently fallen on hard times, I find Soviets better against all levels. Ostheer is much easier against lower skilled players, but very, very hard against high skill Soviets. The MG nerfs have made it really very difficult vs good con spam, I'd really like to see the suppression rebuffed. Just so sick of conscripts running right up the MG before suppression hits and tossing Molotovs, or MGs refusing to open fire on a con squad from a building until the Molotov is actually thrown.
26 Oct 2013, 19:08 PM
#12
15 
Posts: 786
If you always played soviet and just started playing germans your german ELO will be shite, therefore you are only playing noobs.
give it a day or two (unless you play 3/3+, where the game is actually a bit unbalanced)
give it a day or two (unless you play 3/3+, where the game is actually a bit unbalanced)
27 Oct 2013, 08:59 AM
#13
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedSince youve played Sov predominantly uptil now, you are better capable of playing as Ost, against them, because youve seen it from the receiving end.
Its arguable that if you had played Ost first, and then Sov, youd feel the same way, vice versa.
TLDR: Ost seems "easier", as a result of subjective bias, because you are better positioned, due to experience, to play as Ost vs Sov, as a result of having played Sov first. Your "ease" of playing Ost is standing on the experience you gained as playing Sov, whereas when you played Sov, that wasnt standing on the shoulders of having already played as Ost.
Not that that negates ypur point. Just pointing out that you are a better player now, than you where then, and fundamentally more experienced thabks to having played the opposing faction, than you where before you switched.
Its arguable that if you had played Ost first, and then Sov, youd feel the same way, vice versa.
TLDR: Ost seems "easier", as a result of subjective bias, because you are better positioned, due to experience, to play as Ost vs Sov, as a result of having played Sov first. Your "ease" of playing Ost is standing on the experience you gained as playing Sov, whereas when you played Sov, that wasnt standing on the shoulders of having already played as Ost.
Not that that negates ypur point. Just pointing out that you are a better player now, than you where then, and fundamentally more experienced thabks to having played the opposing faction, than you where before you switched.
27 Oct 2013, 09:35 AM
#14
Posts: 155
Link your stats. Im sure u have played against noobs because u are like on 70k place as germans and like 1k as soviets...
27 Oct 2013, 09:56 AM
#15
Posts: 829
from my other thread which touches on this:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/9633/feedback-needed-so-explain-to-me...
"3. New players will have trouble playing soviets because 1 on 1 units will lose to their ostheer counterpart. On the other hand a pro with good micro can use every unit's strengths at the same time for perfect combined arms. I don't believe the germans have an equivalent meta that flourishes in high level play and rewards skillful micro to that extent.
Everyone likes to claim german is OP because it takes less skill to use them... but that myth is brought back to reality when high level play just demonstrates the units arent strong enough to handle soviet role specialization (snipers, su85s, t70s) in a close match, short of a significant failure in play by soviet micro."
I think you are spot on here, except this bit: "
Everyone likes to claim german is OP because it takes less skill to use them... but that myth is brought back to reality'
I don't think its a myth at all. It really depends on individual players skill, lower the skill levels are, the harder it is for players to be effective with Soviets.
I think most guys would agree that Soviets are more demanding to play with, generally. What I mean, units need more 'babysitting' and most units require synergy with other units to be effective (more so than Germans)
The answer to question: are Germans OP and are they easy mode? If you are not very skilled, than they most certainly are. More skillful you are, less of an issue it is due to asimetric faction design until you get to higher skill where it bares no weight.
27 Oct 2013, 11:09 AM
#16
Posts: 688
The answer to question: are Germans OP and are they easy mode? If you are not very skilled, than they most certainly are. More skillful you are, less of an issue it is due to asimetric faction design until you get to higher skill where it bares no weight.
I have the same experience as the OP. I hardly lose games as germans, but get trounced on a regular basis as soviets.
I guess the quote above holds the truth because the high level replays do not seem to indicate any big difference.
That said, it IS kind of a problem that the game is balanced for the top 200, but unbalanced for the bottom 199.800.
'There's honour in victory, honour in defeat and honour in just staying alive'.
[Quote from Wings Reel]
[Quote from Wings Reel]
27 Oct 2013, 13:16 PM
#17
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedWe haventseen actual figures of faction performance throughout the ladder.
We simply cant say for sure if Ost is performing better in lower levels of skill, or not.
Especially not for the games most recent patch version.
Im sure Relic knows though, but they havent released them, far as Ive seen. Nor made any statements, whether public or private, as to whether its true or not.
We simply cant say for sure if Ost is performing better in lower levels of skill, or not.
Especially not for the games most recent patch version.
Im sure Relic knows though, but they havent released them, far as Ive seen. Nor made any statements, whether public or private, as to whether its true or not.
27 Oct 2013, 14:49 PM
#18
Posts: 307
Soviets are also shockingly easy when you play noobs. German is indeed noob friendly but at higher level is not very easy.
27 Oct 2013, 15:20 PM
#19
Posts: 95
Rebuffing mg42 suppression is a really bad idea. It could maybe use a very very slight increase. If you completely rebuff suppression you end back up with a spammable unit that almost completely negates early soviet game play - almost forcing them into scout cars which isn't much fun.
27 Oct 2013, 15:23 PM
#20
Posts: 215
We have to be careful of anecdotal "evidence" for one side being stronger than the other at all levels of play because everyone's experience in games will be different.
New players of either faction are by definition not able to play as effectively as a veteran because they are still learning, therefore I think the only logical way to balance the game is using the top tiers as the standard.
If a game is balanced evenly for the pros, then that should filter down to everyone else where a 500 ranked player vs a 500 ranked player will win because of their own skill--not a super cheese strategy or unit. And that means fun for everyone of all ranks
New players of either faction are by definition not able to play as effectively as a veteran because they are still learning, therefore I think the only logical way to balance the game is using the top tiers as the standard.
If a game is balanced evenly for the pros, then that should filter down to everyone else where a 500 ranked player vs a 500 ranked player will win because of their own skill--not a super cheese strategy or unit. And that means fun for everyone of all ranks
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