Login

russian armor

Pak Howitzer needs adjustment

PAGES (11)down
8 Aug 2019, 23:42 PM
#181
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Is it really that much of a deal a Pak Howie being decrewed by a single indirect hit?
The weapon its still in a safe zone, far away from any form of danger of being destroyed, captured or converted to fuel...

Well seeing as they are in a "safe zone", they probably won't get hit by anything other than indirect fire, so yes, the fact that single shots can decrew it does matter, especially with stukas, pwerfers, and lefhs being a thing. It matters just as much to its survivability as any other indirect fire piece and it matters because it'll lose vet and you'll have to recrew it with more expensive to reinforce infantry. So yeah.
9 Aug 2019, 23:22 PM
#182
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358


Well seeing as they are in a "safe zone", they probably won't get hit by anything other than indirect fire, so yes, the fact that single shots can decrew it does matter, especially with stukas, pwerfers, and lefhs being a thing. It matters just as much to its survivability as any other indirect fire piece and it matters because it'll lose vet and you'll have to recrew it with more expensive to reinforce infantry. So yeah.

I get your point but i wouldnt switch 'matters' with 'annoys'. Unless wstuka can fire again in less than 10 seconds you can get the pak howie back to safety if it is a priority, if it is not then leave it and the whole pak howie discussion becomes worthless. Plus points if you can use some smoke to get it back to safety if needed.

Since when a single werfer rocket kills 5-3 man teamweapons? Am i really missing something?
RE are really that expensive?
10 Aug 2019, 04:22 AM
#183
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053


I get your point but i wouldnt switch 'matters' with 'annoys'. Unless wstuka can fire again in less than 10 seconds you can get the pak howie back to safety if it is a priority, if it is not then leave it and the whole pak howie discussion becomes worthless. Plus points if you can use some smoke to get it back to safety if needed.

Since when a single werfer rocket kills 5-3 man teamweapons? Am i really missing something?
RE are really that expensive?

Well we were discussing survivability of indirect fire team weapons. Ask insanehoshei why it matters so much too, not just me. I think it matters because of veterancy and because it turns into a manpower drain, just like any other casualties do.

Also it's pretty hard to save team weapons from any rocket arty just because of low response times, especially pwerfers or stukas since they inflict so much of their damage immediately (compared to like katy or LM). If you had ever paid attention to the thread or what goes on in game, you'd know especially that pack howies are even more vulnerable since 3 crew members are clumped right on the gun, meaning a single hit (yes, even from a pwerfer) can decrew it. Only like the 3rd time I've had to say this.
10 Aug 2019, 09:12 AM
#184
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066


Well we were discussing survivability of indirect fire team weapons. Ask insanehoshei why it matters so much too, not just me. I think it matters because of veterancy and because it turns into a manpower drain, just like any other casualties do.

Also it's pretty hard to save team weapons from any rocket arty just because of low response times, especially pwerfers or stukas since they inflict so much of their damage immediately (compared to like katy or LM). If you had ever paid attention to the thread or what goes on in game, you'd know especially that pack howies are even more vulnerable since 3 crew members are clumped right on the gun, meaning a single hit (yes, even from a pwerfer) can decrew it. Only like the 3rd time I've had to say this.


Hm pwerfer is actually pretty underwhelming, you can easily safe it from that. Saving it from a walking stuka is another matter. That thing needs to be looked at too.
10 Aug 2019, 09:48 AM
#185
avatar of Nickbn

Posts: 82 | Subs: 1



Hm pwerfer is actually pretty underwhelming, you can easily safe it from that. Saving it from a walking stuka is another matter. That thing needs to be looked at too.



Dude, could you take the time to answer my previous question? It seems to me you are avoiding it now.
10 Aug 2019, 12:20 PM
#186
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 09:48 AMNickbn



Dude, could you take the time to answer my previous question? It seems to me you are avoiding it now.


Matey, I responded to a comment of yours that was a response of yourself to someone else. Don't get mad at me when the guy you were talking with doesn't respond.
10 Aug 2019, 12:21 PM
#187
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

Problem with the Pak howi is it can utterly drain MP and cause a lot of pain from a safe distance.

But then the moment it gets hit by stuka it is instawiped and is a trash unit and invalid.

Maybe make it and the isg more mobile, but remove auto attack. Decrease barrage response time
10 Aug 2019, 16:49 PM
#188
avatar of Nickbn

Posts: 82 | Subs: 1



Matey, I responded to a comment of yours that was a response of yourself to someone else. Don't get mad at me when the guy you were talking with doesn't respond.


I am not mad at all, you are misinterpreting my post. Simply asking for some clarification to better understand you.

To keep it ontopic. No - you did not reply and certainly didn't answer the question that was asked, However some other people found it necessary to answer my question to you for you, which is odd but I specifically asked for your clarification, so I will do it again:


That is not the point, as it is has units that need to be stationary too. The ENTIRE core of Ostheer is stationary. The pak howi counters it all without any kind of user input.


Could you please elaborate on what you mean by this? Which units are these according to you when you say 'entire core'?

(other people please refrain from answering, I am asking himto better understand what he means)
11 Aug 2019, 04:54 AM
#189
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Hm pwerfer is actually pretty underwhelming, you can easily safe it from that. Saving it from a walking stuka is another matter. That thing needs to be looked at too.

All it takes is one rocket hitting that pack howie crew though. I wouldn't exactly call the thing underwhelming either. I know it doesn't have a huge payload but it comes fast and (more importantly) all at the same time. It's also the only one that suppresses for some reason.
11 Aug 2019, 16:58 PM
#190
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Problem with the Pak howi is it can utterly drain MP and cause a lot of pain from a safe distance.

But then the moment it gets hit by stuka it is instawiped and is a trash unit and invalid.

Maybe make it and the isg more mobile, but remove auto attack. Decrease barrage response time

Fair point. Indeed. Wstukas shut down pak howie 100%.

On one side pak howie's are MP drain to the enemy and only WStukas can turn it upside down to a MP drain to USF.

I would add just to not use pak howie's vs OKW but I would argue myself for it.
6 man pak howie is just a copycat of SU but adding mobility to pak howie's could be nice and also a slippery slope into OPness. In this case in particular, the wstuka has to be changed IMO.
11 Aug 2019, 18:02 PM
#191
avatar of Fuhrers Advisor

Posts: 6

PAK howitzer is fine, considering how much the Leig is overperforming rn. If you nerf PAK howitzer, you should do the same with Leig. Or leave them both alone, depending on general power creep in the game.
11 Aug 2019, 20:19 PM
#192
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 16:49 PMNickbn


I am not mad at all, you are misinterpreting my post. Simply asking for some clarification to better understand you.

To keep it ontopic. No - you did not reply and certainly didn't answer the question that was asked, However some other people found it necessary to answer my question to you for you, which is odd but I specifically asked for your clarification, so I will do it again:





Where exactly did you ask a question in the post I responded to? I already gave my reply, the stuka needs to be looked at. But you are comparing higher tier and far more expensive to get rocket artillery to a little howitzer, which overperforms nonetheless.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 16:49 PMNickbn

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by this? Which units are these according to you when you say 'entire core'?


Ostheer is based around team weapons and mainline infantry that is required to be stationary to fire their effective weaponry:

MG 42
Mortar
Pak40
Grenadiers with lmg42

This is Ostheer's core of units, on which the other units rest on. The pak howitzer requires to be parked and then happily counters this entire roster with no user input. That is my problem with the unit.

The Stuka, although way too effective now, at leasts requires some micro to make it barrage, as does the pwerfer (when was the last time you have seen this thing in a 1v1 lol?).

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Aug 2019, 16:49 PMNickbn

(other people please refrain from answering, I am asking himto better understand what he means)


Lol?
11 Aug 2019, 20:20 PM
#193
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066


All it takes is one rocket hitting that pack howie crew though. I wouldn't exactly call the thing underwhelming either. I know it doesn't have a huge payload but it comes fast and (more importantly) all at the same time. It's also the only one that suppresses for some reason.


Yes, but in a 1v1, you will never see a pwerfer in 99% of the cases. You can't even afford a panther in most scenarios and if you go for a pwerfer, you waste fuel that you need for a panther if you ever get there. In a 2v2, yes I can see your point.

In teamgames double pak howi can be a real pain though, screened by riflemen and tommies for example, you will never get close.
11 Aug 2019, 21:20 PM
#194
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Yes, but in a 1v1, you will never see a pwerfer in 99% of the cases. You can't even afford a panther in most scenarios and if you go for a pwerfer, you waste fuel that you need for a panther if you ever get there. In a 2v2, yes I can see your point.

In teamgames double pak howi can be a real pain though, screened by riflemen and tommies for example, you will never get close.

True. I'm just saying they do work really well against pack howies, and it's very doable in teamgames (where pack howies are especially gross, like you said).

And you've still got other (less ideal) counters for it at least; you've got mortars as ost and leigs as okw. If you want to experience actual uncounterable indirect fire try being brits vs double leig lmao.
11 Aug 2019, 21:44 PM
#195
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



Yes, but in a 1v1, you will never see a pwerfer in 99% of the cases. You can't even afford a panther in most scenarios and if you go for a pwerfer, you waste fuel that you need for a panther if you ever get there. In a 2v2, yes I can see your point.

In teamgames double pak howi can be a real pain though, screened by riflemen and tommies for example, you will never get close.


That's because Ostheer have the brumbar in the same tier that can cause a whole lot more damage vs infantry yet still hard counter ATGs and other teamweapons as the werfer does.

Panther isn't really anymore harder to get than a comet. And the comet is trash, we need to end this "ost t4 is never used" argument. Because panther are built a lot, it's just 1vs1 naturally produces medium tank spam to apply pressure
11 Aug 2019, 21:50 PM
#196
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

PAK howitzer is fine, considering how much the Leig is overperforming rn. If you nerf PAK howitzer, you should do the same with Leig. Or leave them both alone, depending on general power creep in the game.


Leave your troll posts in the troll thread you made.
12 Aug 2019, 14:44 PM
#197
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066


True. I'm just saying they do work really well against pack howies, and it's very doable in teamgames (where pack howies are especially gross, like you said).


They do!


And you've still got other (less ideal) counters for it at least; you've got mortars as ost and leigs as okw. If you want to experience actual uncounterable indirect fire try being brits vs double leig lmao.


Well at least you can bolster your tommies, which are basically unstoppable and 2 leigs in 1v1 is very rare. But in a 2v2, it can be a real pain. Imagine only having 4 men squads and facing 2 pak howis as ost. The horror! If we are on this circlejerk, imagine being USF and having only your expensive riflemen hordes and officers and facing 2 walking stukas in 2v2. Ugh, the nightmares.

12 Aug 2019, 14:46 PM
#198
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



That's because Ostheer have the brumbar in the same tier that can cause a whole lot more damage vs infantry yet still hard counter ATGs and other teamweapons as the werfer does.

Panther isn't really anymore harder to get than a comet. And the comet is trash, we need to end this "ost t4 is never used" argument. Because panther are built a lot, it's just 1vs1 naturally produces medium tank spam to apply pressure


How many 1v1 games do you see Ostheer get t3 AND t4? You really can't get t4 without going t3, as you will lose the game before that. You might lean on paks for a while, but they will get you nowhere in the end if you don't get stugs and p4s. Once you get in t3, it is a resource trap where you will have to keep spending resources on p4s and stugs, as you fend of mediums on mass.
13 Aug 2019, 15:34 PM
#199
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 379 | Subs: 1

People complain about Pak Howie being strong against Wehrmacht, and there's people who actually reply with "Well, yeah, but Stuka kills it in one hit!"

This forum sometimes.
13 Aug 2019, 16:11 PM
#200
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Aug 2019, 15:34 PMFarlion
People complain about Pak Howie being strong against Wehrmacht, and there's people who actually reply with "Well, yeah, but Stuka kills it in one hit!"

This forum sometimes.


"The Pak Howie does alot of damage, but it can be killed in a single shot from a KT, this makes it fair and balanced"

PAGES (11)down
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

392 users are online: 2 members and 390 guests
empirescurropt, Gdot
14 posts in the last 24h
40 posts in the last week
94 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44643
Welcome our newest member, Leiliqu96
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM