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russian armor

Soviet B4 "Change"

25 Jul 2019, 18:20 PM
#41
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 594

Well, this thread got poisoned real fast.
25 Jul 2019, 18:28 PM
#42
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2639



Funny you should say that. I think Radio Silence (at least the idea behind it) is actually a hidden gem as one of the very few abilities that expands the strategy of the game beyond brute force, and I think it's a shame there aren't many more units or abilities like it in CoH2. I would've loved more "spy" units and abilities (like vCoH's PE Vampire HT or the Commandos radio triangulation) that would have let players fight enemies in more ways than bullets and shells.


My problem with Radio Silence is it messes with the user interface, which is an absolute no of game design for me. A good UI is a intuitive interface you forget is there, and having abilities mess it up shows a deep misunderstanding of what the UI is for.

Similarly, abilities designed solely to stress out and frustrate the opponent fly in the face of designing a game that's fun to play.

I don't think Radio Silence is like the Vampire HT or Radio Triangulation at all. I'd lump it in with abilities that randomise the opponent's hotkeys for 30 seconds.
26 Jul 2019, 11:52 AM
#43
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1797

Speaking of B4 to weak or only Meme unit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE3frff0Fxs

and for the all the players(and katitof(who dont play this game)) out there which think satchel is useless and has no usage because good player will avoid them easily:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE3frff0Fxs


(yes..its the same replay...but both theories from some ppl will show: its BS. B4 is strong. Satchel is strong. If u think its not: its l2p issue.)
26 Jul 2019, 12:12 PM
#44
avatar of Raviloli

Posts: 55

Speaking of B4 to weak or only Meme unit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE3frff0Fxs

and for the all the players(and katitof(who dont play this game)) out there which think satchel is useless and has no usage because good player will avoid them easily:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE3frff0Fxs


(yes..its the same replay...but both theories from some ppl will show: its BS. B4 is strong. Satchel is strong. If u think its not: its l2p issue.)


I want you to rewatch that replay closely, look at how many shots his B4s fired, look at how his B4s were countered by the LefH artillery despite the latter being outnumbered, look at the fact that whenever the Pz4s got satchelled, they dived, there's also only one occurence of a satchel landing before the vehicle took sufficient DMG to be snareable by regular snares anyway, and it was on the slow, fat KT. The satchels are fine because the penals are otherwise trash AT infantry against anything above light vehicles, and are also your only non-vehicle based AT if you go T1, unless you backtech or go for the 45mm AT gun (lol).

Also consider the bigger picture, VonIvan probably could've actually won if he wasn't too busy memeing with the B4.
26 Jul 2019, 12:16 PM
#45
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 492 | Subs: 1

Speaking of B4 to weak or only Meme unit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE3frff0Fxs

and for the all the players(and katitof(who dont play this game)) out there which think satchel is useless and has no usage because good player will avoid them easily:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE3frff0Fxs


(yes..its the same replay...but both theories from some ppl will show: its BS. B4 is strong. Satchel is strong. If u think its not: its l2p issue.)


This whole thread is a farce.

A bad player sees one good player using a meme unit

Unable to properly process the amount of effort the good players put into their wins, they latch onto the B4 and falsely equate their success to the the unit they don't like

Go to forums, ignore everyone telling them otherwise, continue to insist it's too good


Only Von didn't even win.
26 Jul 2019, 12:38 PM
#46
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1797

Facts:
1. The B4 has some serious kill counts (included several tanks and a tone of squads/ models)
1.1 B4 really hit more than it misses (even 1model kill should be a succes(only a little but it is))
2. The lefh needed much time to kill the B4s. (von failed to repair them// to countered first the lefh with same barrages)
3. Satchels did really GREAT work all the time in this game (and hundred thousand of other games)
4. Von lose because played vs one of the best player out there: paul
26 Jul 2019, 13:19 PM
#47
avatar of Raviloli

Posts: 55

Facts:
1. The B4 has some serious kill counts (included several tanks and a tone of squads/ models)
1.1 B4 really hit more than it misses (even 1model kill should be a succes(only a little but it is))
2. The lefh needed much time to kill the B4s. (von failed to repair them// to countered first the lefh with same barrages)
3. Satchels did really GREAT work all the time in this game (and hundred thousand of other games)
4. Von lose because played vs one of the best player out there: paul


Now you're literally saying it should perform worse than the other two howitzers in the game, despite being more expensive and only in a single doctrine, and highly RNG dependant. The B4 only killed (finished off) the Jagdpanzer, the P4 survived and had to be finished off by penals.

Great in what sense? pushed the vehicles off because they were snared? any ol' AT grenade could do that. only a single AT satchel ever actually achieved a kill, and Von didn't have the capacity to follow up on most of the satchels that he did land that match.
26 Jul 2019, 13:21 PM
#48
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13659 | Subs: 6

That'll never get boring.

-ullu claims unit being op
-posts a replay cast to support it
-replay shows exact opposite of the claim

And that's not the first time.
26 Jul 2019, 13:42 PM
#49
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1797



Now you're literally saying it should perform worse than the other two howitzers in the game, despite being more expensive and only in a single doctrine, and highly RNG dependant. The B4 only killed (finished off) the Jagdpanzer, the P4 survived and had to be finished off by penals.

Great in what sense? pushed the vehicles off because they were snared? any ol' AT grenade could do that. only a single AT satchel ever actually achieved a kill, and Von didn't have the capacity to follow up on most of the satchels that he did land that match.


hmm...i seen they B4 onehit the P4. Maybe u should play the vi in 0.25x speed..where you can see that the penal didnt gave the last shot on it that it killed...the PTRS was shooted...but the p4 exploded befor the ptrs shell was at the p4.

so the b4 deleted a p4 and jp and DID massive dmg to all squads, t4, and armor... even on the move.

while the lefh was only a counter to the b4...while doenst make any good dmg to other squads excepts the B4 crews and repairing pios.
26 Jul 2019, 13:44 PM
#50
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2639

hmm...i seen they B4 onehit the P4. Maybe u should play the vi in 0.25x speed..where you can see that the penal didnt gave the last shot on it that it killed...the PTRS was shooted...but the p4 exploded befor the ptrs shell was at the p4.

so the b4 deleted a p4 and jp and DID massive dmg to all squads, t4, and armor... even on the move.

while the lefh was only a counter to the b4...while doenst make any good dmg to other squads excepts the B4 crews and repairing pios.


If you think it's this good, why not play Counterattack?
26 Jul 2019, 14:06 PM
#51
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13659 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Jul 2019, 13:44 PMLago


If you think it's this good, why not play Counterattack?

He claimed a monkey would be able to win with B4, so we're waiting now for his replay and top 50 rank on his chosen game mode by using B4.
26 Jul 2019, 17:38 PM
#52
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1364

B4 is a meme machine that is it. Be honest with yourself and notice no competitive player or team uses this commander seriously. How about you try to use it yourself and see how difficult it is to play?
26 Jul 2019, 18:59 PM
#53
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

It does, but it doesn't track. It fails against fast moving targets.

B4 is just a meme anyway. It does nothing nine in ten shots because of the scatter, even with LoS, and deletes a whole unit on the 10th.

An actual howitzer is better in every way for consistent area denial and bleed. Its easy to get frustrated about that one time the B4 dunks your panther, but any other indirect would be consistently punishing you in a less dramatic but much more meaningful way.

If you lose to B4 spam, you lost before the b4's even got built
At leasyt you can aim a sturmtiger.


Anyway, nah. If it gets any changes, overhaul it. Engine damage won't make it any more or less meme, just more annoying.


Nothing huh? Lost before b4 was built? VonIvan has been executing tanks and units on retreat with the b4 for quite some time now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE3frff0Fxs&t=2340s

(it won't let me post it as video, even though I did it according to how it should be done :) )
26 Jul 2019, 19:08 PM
#54
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13659 | Subs: 6



Nothing huh? Lost before b4 was built? VonIvan has been executing tanks and units on retreat with the b4 for quite some time now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE3frff0Fxs&t=2340s

(it won't let me post it as video, even though I did it according to how it should be done :) )

It doesn't let you post as vid, because it doesn't accepts time stamps.

Now then, have you counted how many B4s were destroyed that game and what actually they did?
It was hardly efficient investment.
26 Jul 2019, 19:41 PM
#55
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1797

Von Ivan didnt lost cause of weak B4.

Maybe he lost cause of early m3 and pio lost? Or the fact thats he clumb the b4? Or cause of not able to use his many advantages? Or not focusing the lefh?
26 Jul 2019, 20:21 PM
#56
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13659 | Subs: 6

Von Ivan didnt lost cause of weak B4.

Maybe he lost cause of early m3 and pio lost? Or the fact thats he clumb the b4? Or cause of not able to use his many advantages? Or not focusing the lefh?

He also most certainly did not won thanks to op B4, completely invalidating all your points.

Also, how's that top 50 climb by using op B4, lil monkey?
26 Jul 2019, 21:18 PM
#57
avatar of Grim

Posts: 749

Von Ivan didnt lost cause of weak B4.

Maybe he lost cause of early m3 and pio lost? Or the fact thats he clumb the b4? Or cause of not able to use his many advantages? Or not focusing the lefh?


The real facts are:

If something is actually OP you will see it EVERY game (in team games at least). Remember when JLI were OP? Or the Sherman fast firing glitch? Or Windustry/Elite Troops?

People have absolutely NO qualms about cheesing/glitching/exploiting an OP unit to secure the win.

If the B4 actually helped people win we would see it all the time.

Now I know this is the part where you say you see it 'every game' etc so I'm going to preempt that statement: No. You don't. The B4 is an occasional meme but otherwise useless.
26 Jul 2019, 21:21 PM
#58
avatar of FLy1nRabBit

Posts: 18

B4 is a meme machine that is it. Be honest with yourself and notice no competitive player or team uses this commander seriously. How about you try to use it yourself and see how difficult it is to play?



It's not my fault if high competitive players would rather play the same meta over and over again trying to reach a rank that really doesn't matter and don't want to experiment. I play with a partner and we've reached top 30 in team-of-twos because meta players have a hard time countering meme strats and unconventional strategies... one of which is very aggressive play with the B4. I've stopped plenty of axis advances because my B4s would devastate their forces before they could properly push, and have for-mother-russia pinch them after they had to retreat.

I've also had plenty of times where my B4s would be shelled by LEFHs from across the map (by counter-battery) or wasted 90 munitions because the B4 shell flew right by a tank that was barely moving, or hit a twig and exploded before it reached its destination. I've also been properly countered plenty of times by stuka dive bombs and shrek flanks.

So yeah, I've played with it plenty of times, and it isn't necessarily difficult. I wish I could replace all the ML-20s with B4s because in my opinion it's a million times more useful than a shittier LEFH with no vetted abilities to use for some stupid reason.
26 Jul 2019, 22:06 PM
#59
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 109

B4 needs to be able to one-shot panthers too.
26 Jul 2019, 22:28 PM
#60
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 594

I still feel like my suggestion isn't too ridiculous and is basically a mimic of an existing ability with the added caveat that 1) you need a unit built on map to use it and 2) it will be counterable and also limited in range than what's already available (time-on-target; stuka dive bomb; and whatever the UKF version of time-on-target is).
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