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russian armor

Panther armor rebalance.

29 Aug 2019, 09:49 AM
#101
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 02:35 AMgbem


this comparison isnt fair since the allies dont get a heavy medium/tank hunter with high mobility decent AI DPS with the pintle mg and the armor/durability to 1v1 the aforementioned TD so long as both are in range...


I would prefer mobility with range to all other stats. If you can't shoot you he can have all the armor he wants. And yes the comparison is quite fair.
29 Aug 2019, 10:49 AM
#102
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 09:49 AMJilet


I would prefer mobility with range to all other stats. If you can't shoot you he can have all the armor he wants. And yes the comparison is quite fair.


soo can we buff say the comet to have 10 less range than the JT/ele and give it much more HP armor and mobility than the JP/ele and call it a centurion?

can we also do the same for the T-34-85, call it a T-44-100 and make it nondoctrinal?

and of course the M48 patton for the USA... and made nondoctrinal?

id bet that would be completely fair lmao
29 Aug 2019, 11:10 AM
#103
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 10:49 AMgbem


soo can we buff say the comet to have 10 less range than the JT/ele and give it much more HP armor and mobility than the JP/ele and call it a centurion?

can we also do the same for the T-34-85, call it a T-44-100 and make it nondoctrinal?

and of course the M48 patton for the USA... and made nondoctrinal?

id bet that would be completely fair lmao


Man are you delusional ? I said I would pick the range and speed over armor and hp. Because that is how every single RTS game work. Mobility and range are kings in those games. Why in AoE2 was Longbow or Eagle Warriors notorious and Teutonic Knight was a nono ? The same reason. The vehichles you are talking about are not even in the games time period and I really didn't get what you want to say.

Yes the panther is good agreed but it can't dive allied TDs freely except for lonely SU-85.
29 Aug 2019, 12:01 PM
#104
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 11:10 AMJilet


Man are you delusional ? I said I would pick the range and speed over armor and hp. Because that is how every single RTS game work. Mobility and range are kings in those games. Why in AoE2 was Longbow or Eagle Warriors notorious and Teutonic Knight was a nono ? The same reason. The vehichles you are talking about are not even in the games time period and I really didn't get what you want to say.

Yes the panther is good agreed but it can't dive allied TDs freely except for lonely SU-85.


the comparison isnt fair with the argument going as follows

1. a claim that a 60 range cheap TD locking down all your nondoc armor is a l2p issue

2. you implied that the JT/ele with its superior range locking down allied TDs is an equally valid analogy and l2p issue

but disregarding

1. the allies dont have that speedy premium medium i mentioned awhile ago capable of tanking hits from a JT/ELE like a panther can against an SU/FF/jackson

2. the fact that this premium medium also has AI capabilities which if not kept in check by the TD can deal significant damage to infantry

but then counteracted by stating " I said I would pick the range and speed over armor and hp"
which then disregards

3. the panther is faster than both the FF and SU-85 while being more armored aswell... the only real advantage of the aforementioned TDs is range



as for the jackson yeah it should prolly cost 155 fuel with the FF being 140-145
29 Aug 2019, 15:01 PM
#105
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1157

Where people fall down with the Panther is they dont understand its design intention within the Ost faction.

Its not meant to be your main punch in any shape or form, so dont directly compare it to opposing units.

Ost has really strong units and abilities when it comes to killing armour, what they dont have bags and bags of, is manouvability!

This is what your paying for with the Panther, an extremely mobile unit in a fairly slow faction. It has enough armour to get it into, and out of killing range to finish off enemy units.

Its not intended just to slug it out with heavies or tank destroyers. These reasons are why it has slowish rate of fire.

This is why Ost also has had slower repairs, your being punished by taking too much damage with your big tanks, you should try to avoid taking damage as much as possible. Where as allies tactics is to pressure with your armour, soaking up some damage, then pull back and quickly repair.
29 Aug 2019, 15:08 PM
#106
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

Where people fall down with the Panther is they dont understand its design intention within the Ost faction.

Its not meant to be your main punch in any shape or form, so dont directly compare it to opposing units.

Ost has really strong units and abilities when it comes to killing armour, what they dont have bags and bags of, is manouvability!

This is what your paying for with the Panther, an extremely mobile unit in a fairly slow faction. It has enough armour to get it into, and out of killing range to finish off enemy units.

Its not intended just to slug it out with heavies or tank destroyers. These reasons are why it has slowish rate of fire.

This is why Ost also has had slower repairs, your being punished by taking too much damage with your big tanks, you should try to avoid taking damage as much as possible. Where as allies tactics is to pressure with your armour, soaking up some damage, then pull back and quickly repair.


This is different today.
Allies got TD with range, good vet bonus on pen and damages.
Allies have access to snares.
Panther rear armor got nerfed.
Axis heavies got nerfed.
Allies heavies have stronger rear armor.

The tactics is different about soaking damage and high front armor.
Hence this thread is opened to rebalance panther to suit todays meta.
29 Aug 2019, 15:32 PM
#107
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

If the rear armour of your panther is making or breaking your push you shouldn't have pushed...
29 Aug 2019, 20:10 PM
#108
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 15:08 PMmrgame2


This is different today.
Allies got TD with range, good vet bonus on pen and damages.
Allies have access to snares.
Panther rear armor got nerfed.
Axis heavies got nerfed.
Allies heavies have stronger rear armor.

The tactics is different about soaking damage and high front armor.
Hence this thread is opened to rebalance panther to suit todays meta.

How is rear armor relevant in facing frontally against allied tanks again?
How is allied rear armor relevant, if panther always pens it from any range?
Snares are here since day 1, literally nothing changed in how they are used in the last 6 years except they require vehicle to be below 75% health to engine crit.
How axis heavies are relevant to panthers performance?
Allied TDs always had range and good vet, SU-85 wasn't penetrating reliably, but made up for it in being anti tank machinegun at vet3, so it always was a big threat to panther, even greater then it is now from closer ranges.
30 Aug 2019, 02:12 AM
#109
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 15:08 PMmrgame2


This is different today.
Allies got TD with range, good vet bonus on pen and damages.

theyve always had good range and good vet... and as kat said arguably the old SU-85 vet was superior because it made its ROF insanely fast

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 15:08 PMmrgame2

Allies have access to snares.

and all axis mainlines have access to fausts... what are you crying about?

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 15:08 PMmrgame2

Panther rear armor got nerfed.


even a T-34-76 used to penetrate panthers in the rear...

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 15:08 PMmrgame2

Axis heavies got nerfed.

i mean the KT is no longer the i win button it was a few years ago... that definitely isnt a bad thing...

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 15:08 PMmrgame2

Allies heavies have stronger rear armor.


and this is a problem why?

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Aug 2019, 15:08 PMmrgame2

The tactics is different about soaking damage and high front armor.
Hence this thread is opened to rebalance panther to suit todays meta.


l2p
30 Aug 2019, 04:22 AM
#110
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

panther rear used to be 121 on vet. A nice place and nice reward for vetting, that rng against med tanks at max range like t3476 and 76sherman. Right today, even aec can troll it.

panther vet bonus is bad and scale poorly late game.

allies TD got huge pen buffs which negate axis armor. they get delicious vet bonus. every one knows the 60 range thingy.

Hence this thread is calling for rebalancing panther armor that rewards its late game effectiveness.
30 Aug 2019, 08:48 AM
#111
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

And why panther have to not be affected by RNG, like all other units in the game ?
30 Aug 2019, 08:53 AM
#112
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 04:22 AMmrgame2
panther rear used to be 121 on vet. A nice place and nice reward for vetting, that rng against med tanks at max range like t3476 and 76sherman. Right today, even aec can troll it.

panther vet bonus is bad and scale poorly late game.

allies TD got huge pen buffs which negate axis armor. they get delicious vet bonus. every one knows the 60 range thingy.

Hence this thread is calling for rebalancing panther armor that rewards its late game effectiveness.


Exclusing "worst micro in game" there isn't a singular realistic situation where any tank would attack panther from rear at range greater then 10, unless you're "attack moving" it using R hotkey(which boils down to one excluded scenario).

Allied TDs are supposed to kill high armor vehicles reliably.
Panther is high armor vehicle. There is nothing to argue about here, unless you want to underline that balance works exactly as intended.

Panther doesn't struggle against a singular unit its supposed to counter, which means heavy tanks, mediums and premium mediums, it not only bounces them reliably, it got enough health to outlast any of them unless outnumbered.

There is nothing to rebelanace, because there are no problems with its late game performance against its INTENDED targets.

Right today, even aec can troll it.


There is no amount of L2P that can be applied to you to help you anymore.
I bet you're losing P4s to T70.
30 Aug 2019, 08:53 AM
#113
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

If you let AEC troll your panther, then your L2P issues is much larger just "face front armor to the enemies", which not surprise me.
30 Aug 2019, 08:58 AM
#114
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

all youve done is prove that youre a pretty bad player if youre complaining about AECs trolling panthers... unfortunately i dont think theres anything the balance team can do to buff your gameplay...

but maybe watching a few videos from vets or asking for help in the forums can solve the issue here...
30 Aug 2019, 13:09 PM
#115
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1157

Panther is for pushing off pesky allied flanking vehicles, chasing heavily wounded tanks that got hit by paks/shreks etc, cheeky dives to kill katushkas.

It performs all these types of duties excellently, while being very user friendly and having great atributes and abilities for getting it out of trouble and evacuating to safety.

What its not supposed to do is sit in a fire fight with units designed to kill armour, like TDs.
30 Aug 2019, 13:32 PM
#116
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Jesus... What's next? Panther getting trolled by the brit sniper?
30 Aug 2019, 13:40 PM
#117
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

I think the Panther is fine honestly.

Nothing wrong about it unless I have missed out some detail but it performs decently as designed.

I mean it is not difficult to counter. It might be tricky but it is possible.
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