Some Love to OST

1./ I do not think improving just the MG would improve wehrmachts current state. MG42 is perfectly fine as it is.

Well, I'm afraid not. Thanks to power creep other mgs are more self-sufficient and can be left alone without support more often, effectively locking quite a lot of map (UK mgs are just crazy in this respect). Mg42 needs a spotter or will be too easily flanked or even rushed into its arc of fire and killed head on (it happens too easily in later stages of the game with more upgraded/better infantry). The problem is that with very mobile allied units it's practically impossible to keep babysitting mg42 to such a great extend mid-late game. With other mgs you need less babysitting as they react to threats more autonomically. Secondly, ost infantry don't have that many tools to clear mgs. They are slower dealing damage and don't have that many smoke options. Yet, they get pinned further from allied mgs and lose models more quickly when under mg fire. If you don't like the idea of making mg42's vision similar to say Soviet mgs (I'm not even trying to suggest UK's los), maybe other mgs should have shorter los - identical to mg 42.

2./ The Howie is very devastating. I think nerfing the damage and increase AOE will help a little or just nerf the damage. That I agree on. It is extremely powerful. One of those is equivalent to 2 mortars firepower. It is just that good. I think wehr mortars needs to shoot a little faster. Howie shoots at the same speed.

Agreed. Still one thing to be remembered is that most ost units are stationary and predictably tied to cover. Comparing allied indirect fire options and ost is just difficult, as the impact of such wweapons on ost is huge while allied infantry is mostly on the move, so unless you make some mistake of just standing for a long time in one spot, they are tactically almost immune to indirect fire. Fun fact is that pack howie dmgs units on the move which ost mortar should do.

3./ It is not a bad idea. I would rather improve both the engineers and pioneers for both SU and WEHR. Make it fair and square. It is a good idea tough.

Agreed. I still sometimes think that going for fourth bunker option (repair) is good because pioneers are overworked anyway. They build base buildings, lay mines, clear mines, need to help with assaults, build sandbags and repair. So speed, yes, but also you need to let them do other things as retreating sometimes 200 or even 400 manpower from the front to repair a tank gives your opponent too many tactical advantages. Not to mention the fact that sometimes a good tactics is to concenterate fire on you pios and ost tanks are dead.

Don't try to make the game shoddy any more

Why do you have to be so dull?

Well, I'm afraid not. Thanks to power creep other mgs are more self-sufficient and can be left alone without support more often, effectively locking quite a lot of map (UK mgs are just crazy in this respect). Mg42 needs a spotter or will be too easily flanked or even rushed into its arc of fire and killed head on (it happens too easily in later stages of the game with more upgraded/better infantry). The problem is that with very mobile allied units it's practically impossible to keep babysitting mg42 to such a great extend mid-late game. With other mgs you need less babysitting as they react to threats more autonomically. Secondly, ost infantry don't have that many tools to clear mgs. They are slower dealing damage and don't have that many smoke options. Yet, they get pinned further from allied mgs and lose models more quickly when under mg fire. If you don't like the idea of making mg42's vision similar to say Soviet mgs (I'm not even trying to suggest UK's los), maybe other mgs should have shorter los - identical to mg 42.

I agree on the fact that the MG42 can be flanked easily at times, I believe it is due to the fact their rotation speed is somewhat slower. Just feel that Vickers can pick of targets in either corner of the arc quicker than MG42.

Giving grens, sandbags since they are a defensive unit would make sense. Pio does not even have the time to place sandbags,mines,tripwire , repair and building bases. Pios being the only unit having to do everything. Sandbags option for grenadier would be nice. Makes more sense too!

Osteehr does lack the ability to counter other team MGs. I think the best idea would to decrease the reload speed of Osteehr's current Mortar since it can be slightly slower than some others. I think it should be faster than it is currently would solve their lacking tools to counter MGs properly.

Agreed. Still one thing to be remembered is that most ost units are stationary and predictably tied to cover. Comparing allied indirect fire options and ost is just difficult, as the impact of such wweapons on ost is huge while allied infantry is mostly on the move, so unless you make some mistake of just standing for a long time in one spot, they are tactically almost immune to indirect fire. Fun fact is that pack howie dmgs units on the move which ost mortar should do.

I have used the USF howie and it is just ridiculous. Getting one of those can actually somehow change the tide of the game. Helped me in my favour several times. Osteehr mortar should have a decreased reload time. It should be faster than most mortars, not slower as it feels currently.

Maybe nerf damage of USF howie or aoe would be a good move. Both areas currently being too good.

Agreed. I still sometimes think that going for fourth bunker option (repair) is good because pioneers are overworked anyway. They build base buildings, lay mines, clear mines, need to help with assaults, build sandbags and repair. So speed, yes, but also you need to let them do other things as retreating sometimes 200 or even 400 manpower from the front to repair a tank gives your opponent too many tactical advantages. Not to mention the fact that sometimes a good tactics is to concenterate fire on you pios and ost tanks are dead.

I always thought that they should have had a repair bunker since they cover the other 3 options, why not also the "repair". Pios should also more often be able to place sandbags or defensive positions. Osteehr seems like the faction is more or so often have to find cover rather than making it. Give Grens sandbags or trench.

SU by base should have the option to get also a repair base.

I agree on the fact that the MG42 can be flanked easily at times, I believe it is due to the fact their rotation speed is somewhat slower. Just feel that Vickers can pick of targets in either corner of the arc quicker than MG42.

Giving grens, sandbags since they are a defensive unit would make sense.

Osteehr does lack the ability to counter other team MGs. I think the best idea would to decrease the reload speed of Osteehr's current Mortar since it can be slightly slower than some others. I think it should be faster than it is currently would solve their lacking tools to counter MGs properly.



I have used the USF howie and it is just ridiculous. Getting one of those can actually somehow change the tide of the game. Helped me in my favour several times. Osteehr mortar should have a decreased reload time. It should be faster than most mortars, not slower as it feels currently.

Maybe nerf damage of USF howie or aoe would be a good move. Both areas currently being too good.



I always thought that they should have had a repair bunker since they cover the other 3 options, why not also the "repair". Pios should also more often be able to place sandbags or defensive positions. Osteehr seems like the faction is more or so often have to find cover rather than making it. Give Grens sandbags or trench.

SU by base should have the option to get also a repair base.

Agreed with everything That's exactly the key problems. Imagine how much diversity to the game sandbags in new positions would give rather than predictable sticking to cover by grens. In tight matches it could be a deciding factor.

The thing is that patching concentrates very often only on unit stats while the things we mention here may be equally important. For example, gren squad very often faces an infantry squad and rear echelon sqad while pioneers may be building stuff in the base. It gives tactical advantage to US. Same with repairs. To retreat a pio or get it to a tank may take time and means withrawing a pio from the line. At the same time rear echelons may be equipped with a bazooka and support anti tank push. Or they could also help repair US tank even faster. Stuff like this tips the balance much more than many players suspect. Reinforcement and healing speeds should also be analysed. Also the somehow much faster dropping of models by ost squads. It's not rare to see US squads under fire literally for a miniute decapping a point and returning to base with just a bit of health depleated. It should work same for ost. In one of the games I pinned units with mg (airborne and pathfinders) on the cutoff and were dealing dmg with lmggrenadiers. They dropped zero models but managed to cap the point and escape to base. And they kept changing units on the point taking almost no damage. Then they just paradropped two pack howies which started one-two oneshooting my whole infantry. Just blatantlty wrong and funny

Nice to write with U

Why do you have to be so dull?

Why do you want to grenspam so hard?

Why do you want to grenspam so hard?

It is not the fact that I would like to grenspam. The fact, that they have no real ways to help deal with survivability and maintaining ground.

It is more fair in this aspect, having something different than adding simply 5 men which many were not too happy about. Isn't this aspect in some ways better since it is different and not a copycat of UKF "bolster squad"?

Having still 4 man and to them give a little edge more of surviving by giving 2 or 3 grens armour would help in someway maintain their loses and above all maintain consistent firepower. Maybe for Pzgrens also but should cost slightly more ammo.

UKF Tommies can arguably be considered a counterpart to grens a lot better in comparison although grens have snare. Tommies overall have excelling survivability and firepower in terms of AI. Cuz of chain of upgrades that can be acquired by them. Sandbags and cover bonus is a huge deal.

If to make for the sake of this game diverse instead of simply giving Wehr units additional man. Why not give the ability to purchase armour (should be worse armour than Shocks, but still something) in order to give them a better chance. It is not a bad idea!

It is fair and balanced. Better than giving 5 man because Brits already need it in someway, 5 man since they do not have an elite unit. Wehrmacht needs however, the ability to hold their firepower maintenance more rather than losing 25% of it easily per model. That is why

It is not the fact that I would like to grenspam. The fact, that they have no real ways to help deal with survivability and maintaining ground.

They are not supposed to, not on their own.

It is more fair in this aspect, having something different than adding simply 5 men which many were not too happy about. Isn't this aspect in some ways better since it is different and not a copycat of UKF "bolster squad"?

How is it fair?
You have best team weapons support(and late game best anti infantry support in form of brummbar that annihilates blobs and single units alike in 2 shots), best sniper, best(earliest) reinforce halftruck.
The only thing ost doesn't have best here is the actual mainline inf and forward healing, because they would be batshit insane if they did.

Having still 4 man and to them give a little edge more of surviving by giving 2 or 3 grens armour would help in someway maintain their loses and above all maintain consistent firepower. Maybe for Pzgrens also but should cost slightly more ammo.

No, it would do absolutely nothing, because its not infantry that kills them.

UKF Tommies can arguably be considered a counterpart to grens a lot better in comparison although grens have snare. Tommies overall have excelling survivability and firepower in terms of AI. Cuz of chain of upgrades that can be acquired by them. Sandbags and cover bonus is a huge deal.

Tommies are much more expensive and require quite hefty fuel and muni investment. In late game each tommy squad sits on 110 muni worth of upgrades on top of already paying 50+ fuel to be in that state.
And it is NOT cover bonus, they have PENALTY out of cover, not bonus in cover. They are weaker outside of cover, not stronger in it - sappers have cover bonus at vet1 for stens.

If to make for the sake of this game diverse instead of simply giving Wehr units additional man. Why not give the ability to purchase armour (should be worse armour than Shocks, but still something) in order to give them a better chance. It is not a bad idea!

Because, again, it is not only a bad idea, it doesn't help then in any way in late game, because its not small arms that kill them fast by that time.

It is fair and balanced. Better than giving 5 man because Brits already need it in someway, 5 man since they do not have an elite unit. Wehrmacht needs however, the ability to hold their firepower maintenance more rather than losing 25% of it easily per model. That is why

No, it is not.
If it was, it would already be implemented.
That horse is dead for over 3 years now, you're late to the party.
Every possible implementation of that was already discussed in the past and each time it was equally bad idea.
Grens are backbone of ost army, but they are NOT carry of that army, support weapons and vehicles are.

just had a fight with t36/76 killing p4 close range. dear god :/

just had a fight with t36/76 killing p4 close range. dear god :/

Congrats, now get your "most unlucky May 2019" badge, because P4 stomps on T34 and there is no reason why P4 should ever be close to T34.

Congrats, now get your "most unlucky May 2019" badge

Thank you sincerely I was hoping for some appreciation.

1. Allow repair bunkers as the 4th option.
2. Make mg42 los identical to that of maxim's
3. Do sth to pack howie dmg vs ost inf.
4. Trust me on the above

The line of sight is 35 on the mg42 as well as the maxim. Maybe you mean the firing sector?

They are not supposed to, not on their own.

That is true. That is not the why I explained they should get armour rather their increase survivability.

How is it fair?
You have best team weapons support(and late game best anti infantry support in form of brummbar that annihilates blobs and single units alike in 2 shots), best sniper, best(earliest) reinforce halftruck.
The only thing ost doesn't have best here is the actual mainline inf and forward healing, because they would be batshit insane if they did.

The intention is not to make them batshit insane. The upgrade should come after Battle Phase 2. SU and UKF and USF also have deadly elements vs blobs too. OKW is meh, Obersoldaten being its main AI highlight.

No, it would do absolutely nothing, because its not infantry that kills them.

It is unrealistic as some had claimed for an explosive modifier for Osteehr, saying it would be batshit op. Rather Armour instead since it is more realistic. I will still help however despite the encounters with explosive. It will help nonetheless, to take less damage overall than without armour.

Tommies are much more expensive and require quite hefty fuel and muni investment. In late game each tommy squad sits on 110 muni worth of upgrades on top of already paying 50+ fuel to be in that state.
And it is NOT cover bonus, they have PENALTY out of cover, not bonus in cover. They are weaker outside of cover, not stronger in it - sappers have cover bonus at vet1 for stens.

For a "Bolster Squad" which is arguably a bit costy since there is some fuel but it is a 1 time purchase applied to all. Provided it gives 1 man increasing overall survivability and firepower. Does outmatch grens with MG in many more situations. The cover provides according from what I have remembered just "increase rate of fire". They do even well without cover even against grens.

Tommies do real good even without cover. It is just simply when they are in cover, they are better.

Because, again, it is not only a bad idea, it doesn't help then in any way in late game, because its not small arms that kill them fast by that time.

If helps take less damage overall. It will help them nonetheless. There is no such thing as explosive vests. So, it would be more realistic to provide them with armour. Although its specifically against infantry and does not help against explosives. It will help anyways.

No, it is not.
If it was, it would already be implemented.
That horse is dead for over 3 years now, you're late to the party.
Every possible implementation of that was already discussed in the past and each time it was equally bad idea.
Grens are backbone of ost army, but they are NOT carry of that army, support weapons and vehicles are.

It may be old this game but as long as the community is alive and interested. Ideas like this can still be implemented. There is still hope for this game I believe. The idea is not to carry rather to survive better mid-late game. Help them overall sustain less damage. This will help for sure! Not a bad idea, rather it is a rational thought!

This idea is good and should be implemented. The Armour for infantry should become available after either Battle Phase 2 or Battle Phase 3. This will reduce the chances of them being wiped out rather than having no protection. Might just increases their chances of survivability which is all that is being asked of.

All in all. This Armour upgrade for Osteehr infantry will most definitely deal with the issues that everyone experiences when playing Osteehr, survivability. To take less overall damage will surely make a difference. That I am certain of!

All in all. This Armour upgrade for Osteehr infantry will most definitely deal with the issues that everyone experiences when playing Osteehr, survivability. To take less overall damage will surely make a difference. That I am certain of!

Grenadiers don't have survivability issues versus small arms. They have survivability issues vs AoE weapons while clumped behind cover.

That's because, as a four man squad, they clump together tighter. This is an advantage versus accuracy based weapons because you can fit them all behind cover.

The drawback is it's also easier to fit the whole squad into the lethal AoE radius of a tank, grenade or mortar.

Armour won't do shit against that because it's not going to bounce a tank shell.

If helps take less damage overall. It will help them nonetheless. There is no such thing as explosive vests. So, it would be more realistic to provide them with armour. Although its specifically against infantry and does not help against explosives. It will help anyways.

It's not a matter of whether or not it will help them, it's that it helps them against things they don't need help with. They don't need help against small arms, so buffing them against it doesnt make sense. You can't just buff it because you want to, doing that will negatively effect the balance of the overall game

So what would be best mid-late game then for Ost against explosives issue. Nobody even agreed on giving them the option to get 5 man which should become available after Battle Phase 2. Which I think 5 man is indeed a better resolution to all of this.

If it is not 5 man, not armour, not explosive damage reduction. What should it be then?

If it is not 5 man, not armour, not explosive damage reduction. What should it be then?

Not rushing them frontally against tanks.

All infantry bleeds heavily and gets wiped in end game, grens are hardly an exception here.
Go play with new infantry doctrine that gives them 5th men, go see how they perform in late game.

Not rushing them frontally against tanks.

All infantry bleeds heavily and gets wiped in end game, grens are hardly an exception here.
Go play with new infantry doctrine that gives them 5th men, go see how they perform in late game.

Played with the Doctrine. Definitely many occassion they could have been wiped but because of 5 man, they survived. So it is definitely a great help. Would help better if it were non-doc tough. Performs well also.

They should split up the received accuracy vet bonus so they don't have to wait until vet3. 10% at vet 2, 13% at vet 3 or something like that

They should split up the received accuracy vet bonus so they don't have to wait until vet3. 10% at vet 2, 13% at vet 3 or something like that

Even Tommies get the same received accuracy bonuses. Even has by default the same ra as Pzgrens with around (0,8). 5 man and vet makes Tommies real good overall in terms of recieved accuracy and survivability. Better than Grens for sure.