Login

russian armor

Poll for hotly debated units in new commanders.

25 Mar 2019, 15:37 PM
#21
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2019, 15:32 PMLago


Spearhead also makes its mounted machine guns suppress.

Same with the KT.


That's the only purpose tho


Honestly, if it was an ability for a light vehicle or Panzer 4 it would be op, but at the very end hmg having light suppression in late game is NOWHERE near as valuable as 50 sight range.
25 Mar 2019, 15:43 PM
#22
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3138 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2019, 15:35 PMSmartie

Weak point of USF was and should always be the Armor department. But if you look at the current 8 commanders 4 of them give you better tank options:
  • Armor: Bulldozer, M10
  • Cavalry: Pershing
  • Mechanized: 76mm Sherman
  • Rifle: E8

    Now a lot of players want a better tank in the new USF commander, demanding an E8 or the 76mm Sherman. That would mean that you would get in over 50% of the US commanders better tanks than Wehrmacht can get with T3. This sounds bad imo, USF can not have the best light vehicles, superiour infantry, the best TD in the game and premium mediums in the most used commanders at the same time.




From what I've noticed, people usually go Armor most of the time.

Heavy Cav is seldomly picked.

Mechanized's 76 Sherman as someone else mentioned from the recent tournament wasn't used once and nobody picks Rifle Company anymore because there is Armor and Mech Companies arguably more than making up for their lack of the E8.

The way I see it if they add it to Urban Assault it would open up both it's use, a possible tweak to it. I'd go as far as to say that maybe they should include another ability from Rifle Company so they can also tweak it then that would also mean a possible resurrection of Rifle Company
ddd
25 Mar 2019, 16:11 PM
#23
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2019, 15:35 PMSmartie

Weak point of USF was and should always be the Armor department. But if you look at the current 8 commanders 4 of them give you better tank options:
  • Armor: Bulldozer, M10
  • Cavalry: Pershing
  • Mechanized: 76mm Sherman
  • Rifle: E8

    Now a lot of players want a better tank in the new USF commander, demanding an E8 or the 76mm Sherman. That would mean that you would get in over 50% of the US commanders better tanks than Wehrmacht can get with T3. This sounds bad imo, USF can not have the best light vehicles, superiour infantry, the best TD in the game and premium mediums in the most used commanders at the same time.




You forgot wermacht has nondoctrinal panther that counters every piece of armor usf can deploy, pershing included. Also its not like you can have easy8 and pershing in one game, but wermacht can have panther, tiger and rocket arty. They will be stronger than usf in armor department no matter what.

76mm sherman is so bad nobody uses it even though mechanized is meta commander, look recent tournament

Easy8 is mediocre unit in terrible commander

Pershing is below average heavy tank (800hp, so not so heavy) in off meta commander
25 Mar 2019, 16:25 PM
#24
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2019, 16:11 PMddd


You forgot wermacht has nondoctrinal panther that counters every piece of armor usf can deploy, pershing included.


Thats my point: Wehrmacht NEEDS to go T4 to stay relevant, yes, Panther can counter all us tanks but the unit is very expensive and you also need reliable AI as Ostheer. That means you have to also build Brummbaer. Because of Allied TD's and Tanks like the T34-85 there is no place for Support Armor Corps anymore.
I concede that my post is provocative but you should also keep in mind that an E8 /76mm Sherman could be stronger after a rework. And if you say that the 76mm Sherman is shit... what does that mean for the Wehrmacht PIV (cheaper and a little bit weaker than 76mm Sherman?
ddd
25 Mar 2019, 16:40 PM
#25
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2019, 16:25 PMSmartie


Thats my point: Wehrmacht NEEDS to go T4 to stay relevant, yes, Panther can counter all us tanks but the unit is very expensive and you also need reliable AI as Ostheer. That means you have to also build Brummbaer. Because of Allied TD's and Tanks like the T34-85 there is no place for Support Armor Corps anymore.
I concede that my post is provocative but you should also keep in mind that an E8 /76mm Sherman could be stronger after a rework. And if you say that the 76mm Sherman is shit... what does that mean for the Wehrmacht PIV (cheaper and a little bit weaker than 76mm Sherman?


Wermacht has the option to go panther without any doctrine choice, usf biggest "tank" without doctrine is probably jackson, if it counts. They can also go one of many tiger doctrine for callin tank without tech and tiger is stronger than any usf tank by the numbers. You listed good utility units in usf doctrines but when it comes to raw strenght wermacht armor is always stronger than usf armor.

76mm is strange unit, it was recently reworked into some kind of tank destroyer. Sure it will win over p4 (its 5 fuel more expensive) but rest of its stats are bad, like for example armor: 160 vs 180/234. Sherman gets penetrated by everything while vet2 p4 has decent chance to deflect shots. Its easier to keep p4 alive in the late game compared to sherman which always stays squishy.
26 Mar 2019, 00:07 AM
#26
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2019, 13:38 PMLago

Then in the last iteration of the preview patch, they abandoned that and shoved almost everything they'd cut back in. Some abilities like Artillery Cover were bolted in strange places. Goliaths and Warning Flares, two abilites strong enough to carry the pre-revamp Overwatch commander by themselves, got bundled to make way for the buffed up Sector Assault.

Mechanized, Tactical Support and Overwatch aren't in scope, so there's nothing that can be done to trim those back now. :(

But please don't let feature creep get to the new commanders.

Overwatch was projected to be too weak, hence the bundling and retaining of abilities. Artillery cover was bolted on because the community wanted it and I'm not quite sure where else there was room for it. Not saying they weren't missteps, just showing the decisions had actual rationale behind them.

Something more opinion based: I'd say feature creep wasn't the issue, just a symptom. A bad evaluation of overwatch's power and putting in an ability that was too forced were the issues imo.
26 Mar 2019, 01:58 AM
#27
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Mar 2019, 16:40 PMddd


Wermacht has the option to go panther without any doctrine choice, usf biggest "tank" without doctrine is probably jackson, if it counts. They can also go one of many tiger doctrine for callin tank without tech and tiger is stronger than any usf tank by the numbers....

Grass is always greener on the other side...
in a shellnut
26 Mar 2019, 02:04 AM
#28
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

I still think having a commander with a premium medium and rocket arti is a bad idea, seems too overloaded to me. Either keep the calliope or switch it for e8/76mm and give the commander a mortar halftrack to compensate for the lack of artillery.
26 Mar 2019, 10:23 AM
#29
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

T-34-85 and Katty exist together.
Panthers and Werfers exist together.
OKW PzIV and Stuza Z.F. exist together.

Can't see good mediums and rocket arty suddenly now being a problem.
26 Mar 2019, 10:43 AM
#30
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

T-34-85 and Katty exist together.
Panthers and Werfers exist together.
OKW PzIV and Stuza Z.F. exist together.

Can't see good mediums and rocket arty suddenly now being a problem.

Factions design vs Commander design.

They are quite different things. Commander should be of about equal power level to increase the use of them and to help identify faction balance issues.
26 Mar 2019, 13:19 PM
#31
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

I still don't see it being an issue.

Hell, even the brits have a Comet and Land Matteress combo available, if you hate yourself!

Joking about the comet aside, medium armour and a cally won't suddenly make other commanders obsolete. Priests and LMGs are a solid combo. Both para doctrines have some of the best elite infantry going alongside tech sidestepping.

Its a selling point of a commander, but not somehow vastly better than other options.
ddd
26 Mar 2019, 13:40 PM
#32
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

You know people didnt use easy8 in months when they say it would be too strong with calliope (LOL). If okw p4 with stuka and t34/85 with katyusha are ok then how can easy8, tank with less hp than t34 and less armor than p4, be too strong with anything? Tiger with pwerfer, comet with mattress, is2 with katyusha, kingtiger with stuka are all ok but a fricking EASY8 IS TOO STRONG? Please at least play ONE game with this tank before speaking out.
26 Mar 2019, 14:18 PM
#33
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2019, 13:40 PMddd
You know people didnt use easy8 in months when they say it would be too strong with calliope (LOL). If okw p4 with stuka and t34/85 with katyusha are ok then how can easy8, tank with less hp than t34 and less armor than p4, be too strong with anything? Tiger with pwerfer, comet with mattress, is2 with katyusha, kingtiger with stuka are all ok but a fricking EASY8 IS TOO STRONG? Please at least play ONE game with this tank before speaking out.


I don't think it'd be overpowered, but it'd probably kill poor Tactical Support stone dead.
26 Mar 2019, 15:12 PM
#34
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2019, 13:40 PMddd
You know people didnt use easy8 in months when they say it would be too strong with calliope (LOL). If okw p4 with stuka and t34/85 with katyusha are ok then how can easy8, tank with less hp than t34 and less armor than p4, be too strong with anything? Tiger with pwerfer, comet with mattress, is2 with katyusha, kingtiger with stuka are all ok but a fricking EASY8 IS TOO STRONG? Please at least play ONE game with this tank before speaking out.

Check your stats they are simply wrong.

Easy8 has more armor and HP than both T-34/76 and of PzIV and thus it more durable. It also has a superior gun.
26 Mar 2019, 15:14 PM
#35
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2019, 15:12 PMVipper

Check your stats they are simply wrong.

Easy8 has more armor and HP than both T-34/76 and of PzIV and thus it more durable. It also has a superior gun.


jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2019, 13:40 PMddd
You know people didnt use easy8 in months when they say it would be too strong with calliope (LOL). If okw p4 with stuka and t34/85 with katyusha are ok then how can easy8, tank with less hp than t34 and less armor than p4, be too strong with anything? Tiger with pwerfer, comet with mattress, is2 with katyusha, kingtiger with stuka are all ok but a fricking EASY8 IS TOO STRONG? Please at least play ONE game with this tank before speaking out.


Maybe you should end your common practice of reading every single word separately and then over analyzing them in vacuum and learn to read a sentence to grasp the context of all these single words bunched up in a line?
26 Mar 2019, 15:23 PM
#36
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Mar 2019, 15:14 PMKatitof

Maybe you should end your common practice of reading every single word separately and then over analyzing them in vacuum and learn to read a sentence to grasp the context of all these single words bunched up in a line?

Dear katitof PLS stop your silly campaign of trying to prove me wrong. Filling the forum with pointless, failed attempts to prove me wrong is completely non constructive and its guess it becoming increasingly tiring to everyone reading these post.

Even you compare the Easy8 to the T-34/85 it as at least as durable. It can take the same number of shots and has more armor.
26 Mar 2019, 15:28 PM
#37
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Dozer Blades are too little to not be bundled with something.
But since it doesn't fit the Commander as well as the 105 Sherman, replace them with it, then put the Calliope behind tech and buff it a little more.
26 Mar 2019, 16:10 PM
#38
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3138 | Subs: 2

Dozer Blades are too little to not be bundled with something.
But since it doesn't fit the Commander as well as the 105 Sherman, replace them with it, then put the Calliope behind tech and buff it a little more.


Hmm, adding the 105 Sherman and then enabling the Calliope's gun sounds like an interesting idea.
26 Mar 2019, 16:21 PM
#39
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

and then enabling the Calliope's gun sounds like an interesting idea.


The Calliope's main gun isn't animated so that can't be done.
26 Mar 2019, 17:06 PM
#40
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

Why there isn't an option to keep Normal Sherman bulldozer and the M3 Halftrack?
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

Offline

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

350 users are online: 1 member and 349 guests
Muad'Dib
4 posts in the last 24h
32 posts in the last week
85 posts in the last month
Registered members: 44630
Welcome our newest member, kajalfw8
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM