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Thoughts on Panzergrenadiers

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29 Apr 2019, 14:29 PM
#382
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392



But then the worldmodel will still be a normal stg, I guess if that's not important, it could be an option.

How should these scoped stgs work? Less dps at short range, more at med and long range?


a. simply copy+paste the PnzGrns G43 stats or b. make individual

PnzGrns G43-upgrade is so or so not Logical, why changing STG with G43? That makes no sence.



That would simulate Mp44 single-fire mode -> mark-target will change the animator to full-auto.





Beside:
- Remove the MP40 of Ostheer's Pio, give them a Lugar (same stats) or a K98 (Volks) instead.
- Sturmtruppen should get a PPsh instead of the MP40. (rename it MP41[r] PPSh41 9 mm)
29 Apr 2019, 14:45 PM
#383
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
As I've stated earlier, I think the changes to pgrens are perfect. I can understand why T0 pgrens may be an issue but the fact is that allied mainlines are now rifles, 5man sections and penals. They used to be just rifles, sections and cons. Under these circumstances, it's justified why pgrens should be in T0.

This is Ostheer finally getting its powercreep after penals are basically a WFA powerlevel unit for SU.
29 Apr 2019, 18:21 PM
#384
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

Any touching popcap or making the unit more cost effective will encourage Shrek blobs and borderline ruin teamgames again.

I don't think it really matters that "they don't have snare" when a few squads can pop mediums in one volley due to shrek alpha damage.

So for me the comparison with penals is a poor one, ptrs penals or PIAT sappers can't one shot a medium even if you blob 3 squads
29 Apr 2019, 19:35 PM
#385
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Any touching popcap or making the unit more cost effective will encourage Shrek blobs and borderline ruin teamgames again.

I don't think it really matters that "they don't have snare" when a few squads can pop mediums in one volley due to shrek alpha damage.

So for me the comparison with penals is a poor one, ptrs penals or PIAT sappers can't one shot a medium even if you blob 3 squads


Have you lost your mind? Shreckblobs havent change from being a resource waste against both allied mainline inf and mediums, with the only exception of the t34.
But if you deliberately throw Sherman's at pzgrens and don't micro them I could understand your accusations.
30 Apr 2019, 17:07 PM
#386
avatar of Hagen67483

Posts: 65

Shrecks are fine in my opinion, in the right situations they can be devastating. But they also have their weak points.
If I feel defensive I use Pak40s as AT. (needs fausts or mines for optimal performance)
If I feel offensive I use Shrecks as AT. (Needs other agressive units (Basic PGrens, G42 Grens and/or Pz4 for support).

Additionaly I think a change in tec and building cost should be made with the new patch. Increase the cost for the first Tec from 100MP to 200MP, because now it gives you Pgrens without the building and reduces the risk of a T1-T3 rush (You can use the shrecks to survive until your mediums hit the field). To balance things out reduce the cost of the T2 building from 200 MP to 100 MP, because it lost the Pgrens and I fear many will skip it if it costs 200MP.

Just my opinion.
30 Apr 2019, 18:49 PM
#387
avatar of CombCrab

Posts: 50

Shrecks are fine in my opinion, in the right situations they can be devastating. But they also have their weak points.
If I feel defensive I use Pak40s as AT. (needs fausts or mines for optimal performance)
If I feel offensive I use Shrecks as AT. (Needs other agressive units (Basic PGrens, G42 Grens and/or Pz4 for support).

Additionaly I think a change in tec and building cost should be made with the new patch. Increase the cost for the first Tec from 100MP to 200MP, because now it gives you Pgrens without the building and reduces the risk of a T1-T3 rush (You can use the shrecks to survive until your mediums hit the field). To balance things out reduce the cost of the T2 building from 200 MP to 100 MP, because it lost the Pgrens and I fear many will skip it if it costs 200MP.

Just my opinion.


I dunno, the whole point of moving pgrens to T0 is to make them more accesible, so they get used more often. They already cost a lot of MP, I don't think it's necessary to move 100mp from T2 to BP1, this would only serve to make the one pgren squad most players will probably consider to get less appealing(going for 2 or more squads is too much of an investment in most situations).

Also, most players get T2 for the light vehicles, and the PAK40 is typically preferred over pgren shrecks, I doubt saving 200MP and 20FU would make players consider skipping T2 and relying on pgrens instead of getting the PAK40. It could help players that already do that, but then they are already doing it fairly succesfully(unless they like to lose), so they have some other strategy to compensate for the lack of T2.

Pgren shrecks aren't really better than a pak for AT, they have their pros and cons over it, but aren't directly better, typically harder to use and keep on the field, and cost additional 100 munies, which could be spent on mines/upgrades for grens.
30 Apr 2019, 19:19 PM
#388
avatar of Hagen67483

Posts: 65



I dunno, the whole point of moving pgrens to T0 is to make them more accesible, so they get used more often. They already cost a lot of MP, I don't think it's necessary to move 100mp from T2 to BP1, this would only serve to make the one pgren squad most players will probably consider to get less appealing(going for 2 or more squads is too much of an investment in most situations).

Also, most players get T2 for the light vehicles, and the PAK40 is typically preferred over pgren shrecks, I doubt saving 200MP and 20FU would make players consider skipping T2 and relying on pgrens instead of getting the PAK40. It could help players that already do that, but then they are already doing it fairly succesfully(unless they like to lose), so they have some other strategy to compensate for the lack of T2.


If most people dont skip the T2 building, ok, no change needed, but if they do I think my suggestion is resonable.


Pgren shrecks aren't really better than a pak for AT, they have their pros and cons over it, but aren't directly better, typically harder to use and keep on the field, and cost additional 100 munies, which could be spent on mines/upgrades for grens.


I never said they are better than pak for AT, I said it depends on the situation which one is better. Because of that I called them "fine".

Thanks for your reply.
30 Apr 2019, 19:44 PM
#389
avatar of Hagen67483

Posts: 65

ok just read the 7.0 changes, with the nerf for the allied light transport vehicles I really think skiping the T1 building and tec rushing Pgrens gets more and more viable.
30 Apr 2019, 19:46 PM
#390
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Additionaly I think a change in tec and building cost should be made with the new patch. Increase the cost for the first Tec from 100MP to 200MP, because now it gives you Pgrens without the building and reduces the risk of a T1-T3 rush (You can use the shrecks to survive until your mediums hit the field). To balance things out reduce the cost of the T2 building from 200 MP to 100 MP, because it lost the Pgrens and I fear many will skip it if it costs 200MP.

Just my opinion.


I agree that something like this should be done, altough this way it interferes with things like the Infantry Doctrine 250 and strategies were the Kampenya is skipped.

I personally think Shrecks should be locked behind the actual T2 building, except for Panzergrenadiers in the Mechanized Assault Group. I fear Pgrens into Ostwind rush will become very popular otherwise.
3 May 2019, 08:47 AM
#391
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1


I personally think Shrecks should be locked behind the actual T2 building, except for Panzergrenadiers in the Mechanized Assault Group. I fear Pgrens into Ostwind rush will become very popular otherwise.


I agree that Pgrens into Ostwind can be very potent strat. Locking panzershreks behind T2 building or after upgrading BF3 is worth testing.
3 May 2019, 09:02 AM
#392
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post3 May 2019, 08:47 AMStark


I agree that Pgrens into Ostwind can be very potent strat. Locking panzershreks behind T2 building or after upgrading BF3 is worth testing.


That's a good idea, either the T2 building or BF3.
3 May 2019, 11:00 AM
#393
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1159

T2 building would make more sense, seen as your going to pick up BF3 on your way to rushing ostwind anyway,so it wouldnt slow you down much.
3 May 2019, 11:40 AM
#394
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

T2 building would make more sense, seen as your going to pick up BF3 on your way to rushing ostwind anyway,so it wouldnt slow you down much.


Yeah, T2 or BF4 might be the better option, that way you'd slow yourself down either way if you want both Pgren Schrecks and Ostwind/P4, while still allowing the option to skip T2 entirely.
3 May 2019, 17:56 PM
#395
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1159

Fits with faction design, with fausts tied to T1 building
3 May 2019, 19:16 PM
#396
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Fits with faction design, with fausts tied to T1 building


Agreed, I hope it makes the patch, otherwise I predict it gets hotfixed in. :luvDerp:
3 May 2019, 22:07 PM
#397
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Fits with faction design, with fausts tied to T1 building

Faust is no longer tied only to T1 building.
3 May 2019, 23:04 PM
#398
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Also, BF4? You guys mean Tier4 or BF3?
4 May 2019, 05:47 AM
#399
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1159

jump backJump back to quoted post3 May 2019, 22:07 PMVipper

Faust is no longer tied only to T1 building.


Yeah I realised after posting :facepalm:
4 May 2019, 09:22 AM
#400
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Also, BF4? You guys mean Tier4 or BF3?


Forget BF3 is Ostheer T4 tech #JustOstheerThings
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