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russian armor

Bren Carrier and Soviet M3A1 Outright OP Early Game

1 Oct 2018, 15:18 PM
#1
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 232

Both the bren carrier and soviet M3A1 over perform in the early game . Wehr simply has no answer to it unless the opponent is stupid enough to get too close to your Grenadiers which rarely ever happens and it still won't outright kill them.


To make matters even worse and this is when the units start to go from over performing to outright op is the no brainer flame upgrade or flame engineer for the M3A1. Both these *upgrades* happen before Wehr can even rush to T2 to counter it.

I would like to see a delay for these units as the ridiculous timing is way off and needs changing.
1 Oct 2018, 15:32 PM
#2
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3140 | Subs: 2

Give Soviets the Bren carrier since it was given to them in larger quantities anyhow.

Move M3A1 to USF.

Problem solved.
1 Oct 2018, 15:54 PM
#3
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Shock units doing what shock units do.
1 Oct 2018, 15:57 PM
#4
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Give Soviets the Bren carrier since it was given to them in larger quantities anyhow.

Move M3A1 to USF.

Problem solved.


Awful idea. That would make USF over the top. There's mech doctrine for a reason. And if you're removing the carrier from UKF, UKF would be useless against mgs.
1 Oct 2018, 16:07 PM
#5
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3140 | Subs: 2



Awful idea. That would make USF over the top. There's mech doctrine for a reason. And if you're removing the carrier from UKF, UKF would be useless against mgs.


WC51 becomes a stock unit, can be upgraded to a .50 cal, Ambulance or Weapons Carrier able to deploy on the field with weapon racks, solves a design flaw of the USF.

M3A1 replaces it in Mech Company along with the M3 HT.

And I never said remove the UC from the UKF.
1 Oct 2018, 16:13 PM
#6
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


WC51 becomes a stock unit, can be upgraded to a .50 cal, Ambulance or Weapons Carrier able to deploy on the field with weapon racks, solves a design flaw of the USF.

M3A1 replaces it in Mech Company along with the M3 HT.

And I never said remove the UC from the UKF.


And why does USF deserve a 0min light vehicle? Brits have one because no mobile mortar. SU have to lock themselves in spec rifle building.
1 Oct 2018, 16:47 PM
#7
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 464



And why does USF deserve a 0min light vehicle? Brits have one because no mobile mortar. SU have to lock themselves in spec rifle building.
Brits MG and a light vehicle and USF only good think is riflemen that has to come close
1 Oct 2018, 17:18 PM
#8
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

The wc51 is alright, but I would rather have a willys jeep.
1 Oct 2018, 17:23 PM
#9
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Idk about OP, I think that's up for discussion, but the concept that you can build a unit at minute 0 i.e. kubel, WC51, m3a1 and not suffer bleed because they use repairs instead of manpower is a....... dangerous concept to say the least. Although I'd say it is most definatly more map dependant how powerful those units are.
1 Oct 2018, 17:32 PM
#10
avatar of Tactical Imouto

Posts: 172

Permanently Banned
Not like u get FREE snares without tech on grens to counter clowncar since u need to drive right next to them to actually hit anything.
1 Oct 2018, 17:35 PM
#11
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3140 | Subs: 2



And why does USF deserve a 0min light vehicle? Brits have one because no mobile mortar. SU have to lock themselves in spec rifle building.


It can be locked behind the weapon rack unlock to balance it out, it's just your own assumption to be a 0m light vehicle, I only said for it to become a stock unit.

And I don't think the UC can provide smoke or survive after the mid game so it doesn't replace a mobile mortar, it's just a micro intensive anti-garrison tool because the Brits otherwise lack one non-doctrinally.

The Soviets on the other hand are the best and most popular Allied Army right now as the stats prove from the recent GSC2 tournament.
1 Oct 2018, 19:36 PM
#12
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

5 minute Flame HT would like a word with you.
1 Oct 2018, 20:29 PM
#13
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2257 | Subs: 1

1 Oct 2018, 21:07 PM
#14
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1



It can be locked behind the weapon rack unlock to balance it out, it's just your own assumption to be a 0m light vehicle, I only said for it to become a stock unit.

And I don't think the UC can provide smoke or survive after the mid game so it doesn't replace a mobile mortar, it's just a micro intensive anti-garrison tool because the Brits otherwise lack one non-doctrinally.

The Soviets on the other hand are the best and most popular Allied Army right now as the stats prove from the recent GSC2 tournament.


Since most people don't get weapon racks until after LT/capt then the wc51/m5a1 would be useless.
1 Oct 2018, 22:45 PM
#15
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Idk about OP, I think that's up for discussion, but the concept that you can build a unit at minute 0 i.e. kubel, WC51, m3a1 and not suffer bleed because they use repairs instead of manpower is a....... dangerous concept to say the least. Although I'd say it is most definatly more map dependant how powerful those units are.

+1
1 Oct 2018, 22:47 PM
#16
avatar of Syraw

Posts: 104

Blob to counter.
2 Oct 2018, 01:11 AM
#17
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

Both the bren carrier and soviet M3A1 over perform in the early game . Wehr simply has no answer to it unless the opponent is stupid enough to get too close to your Grenadiers which rarely ever happens and it still won't outright kill them.


To make matters even worse and this is when the units start to go from over performing to outright op is the no brainer flame upgrade or flame engineer for the M3A1. Both these *upgrades* happen before Wehr can even rush to T2 to counter it.

I would like to see a delay for these units as the ridiculous timing is way off and needs changing.


Removing or delaying the m3a1 scout car would be akin to gutting sov earlygame... it would disrupt the balance between okw-ost-sov... absolutely unacceptable

Nerfing the universal carrier is akin to removing UKF from the game... even with the sapper buff ukf will be helpless against an mg42

Besides ost is supposed to defend and hold the line while rushing a 222... a scout car far superior to the uc or the m3a1
2 Oct 2018, 04:56 AM
#18
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Another day another Bren carrier OP thread.
2 Oct 2018, 07:56 AM
#19
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Idk about OP, I think that's up for discussion, but the concept that you can build a unit at minute 0 i.e. kubel, WC51, m3a1 and not suffer bleed because they use repairs instead of manpower is a....... dangerous concept to say the least. Although I'd say it is most definatly more map dependant how powerful those units are.


I think the Kubel and WC51 are properly balanced as T0/T1 vehicles as they allow to trade repairs against bleed but only at the price of being vulnerable to concentrated small arms fire themselves. What I dislike about the UC is how it can literally stand up to several (Volks)grenadier squads in heavy cover and win, and the Scout Car can generally do the same. For OKW there's no counterplay except building a Raketten or waiting for fausts and hope the enemy gets too greedy. I think concentrated small arms fire should do more damage to these vehicles.

2 Oct 2018, 08:55 AM
#20
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1



I think the Kubel and WC51 are properly balanced as T0/T1 vehicles as they allow to trade repairs against bleed but only at the price of being vulnerable to concentrated small arms fire themselves. What I dislike about the UC is how it can literally stand up to several (Volks)grenadier squads in heavy cover and win, and the Scout Car can generally do the same. For OKW there's no counterplay except building a Raketten or waiting for fausts and hope the enemy gets too greedy. I think concentrated small arms fire should do more damage to these vehicles.



UC isn´t like that anymore after it´s armor got nerfed. It won´t win vs multiple units in green cover. M3 has always died from concentraded small arms fire. Does very little against green cover units generally. Key is to use it vs single squads and drive into short range so the flamer CE or Penal can do their work properly, not long fights vs green cover units. OKW counterplay vs M3 is blobbing up units, super early mines and getting Raketen. Also it takes a while to get 60 muni for the flamer upgrade for engineers. The time window of M3 vs faust-less Volks really isn´t that big especially because OKW can cap super fast in the first few minutes.
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