by both I assume you mean the vickers and maxim and not the USF .50? The .50 pins like instantly I thought?
And yeah if anything that's the main advantage of the vickers is that if your MG ends up fighting another MG in a building, it will always win by miles. XD
How to fix UKF: Unit overview
30 Sep 2018, 16:31 PM
#141
Posts: 220
30 Sep 2018, 19:27 PM
#142
Posts: 5279
by both I assume you mean the vickers and maxim and not the USF .50? The .50 pins like instantly I thought?
And yeah if anything that's the main advantage of the vickers is that if your MG ends up fighting another MG in a building, it will always win by miles. XD
yea, the .50 cal is a great weapon (as it should be for its timing and price) but the vickers and maxim are both ineffective at their intended role
but at least the vickers fills SOME role, even if its the wrong one. when i see a maxim playing against the soviet im relieved to know penals arent around and that i have free movement because the only thing its performance manages to stop is players from building them
#stalinwept
30 Sep 2018, 19:42 PM
#143
Posts: 2358
agreed. both allied mgs suffer from this. low suppression rate compounds with longer range on axis nades to be woefully ineffective at the main reason you buy them. sadly the ukf is so fucked up that the vickers is better at clearing garrisons than it is fighting blobs and you need the UC with the vickers to make anything eat dirt...
50 cal could get a serious damage upgrade, maybe if it drops fast enough a couple models, volks/grens/pgren should retreat before getting wiped, instead of waiting to the mg to suppress them.
Vickers could get some accuracy bonus to achieve the same (since vickers had smaller calliber)
This way factions keep some asymmetry, yet achieve similar results. Lights vehicles for axis could get affected too, but one step a time.
30 Sep 2018, 19:44 PM
#144
Posts: 1979
50 cal could get a serious damage upgrade, maybe if it drops fast enough a couple models, volks/grens/pgren should retreat before getting wiped, instead of waiting to the mg to suppress them.
Vickers could get some accuracy bonus to achieve the same (since vickers had smaller calliber)
This way factions keep some asymmetry, yet achieve similar results. Lights vehicles for axis could get affected too, but one step a time.
The 50 is the best mg ingame outside of an mg42 firing incediary rounds... it doesnt need a buff... only the vickers and maxim do...
30 Sep 2018, 19:55 PM
#145
Posts: 2358
The 50 is the best mg ingame outside of an mg42 firing incediary rounds... it doesnt need a buff... only the vickers and maxim do...
if so then, make maxims more mobile, you just cant buff that sucker carelessly without having a maxim spam meta all over again.
Maybe maxims could enjoy acc bonus when their vet1 is used... they are durable enough and vet quite fast
30 Sep 2018, 20:16 PM
#146
Posts: 1979
if so then, make maxims more mobile, you just cant buff that sucker carelessly without having a maxim spam meta all over again.
Maybe maxims could enjoy acc bonus when their vet1 is used... they are durable enough and vet quite fast
Making them more mobile actually promotes their spam as conscripts continue to remain shit without ppshs.. making maxims a preferrable alternative to the shitty conscript
Refer to the thread i made on the maxim for more details on that..
Maxims need suppression and dps buffs not mobility buffs
30 Sep 2018, 20:42 PM
#147
Posts: 2358
Maxims need suppression and dps buffs not mobility buffs
that would not cause a maxim doom invasion at all. Just make it shoot lazers like the Flak HT tread. There is no middleground in discussions with you.
Also, why always whining? always crying and seeking attention, what are you 5 years old?
Keep the forums polite, stop spamming and flamming and maybe someone will start hearing what you say... even those nonesenses.
30 Sep 2018, 21:01 PM
#148
Posts: 5279
if so then, make maxims more mobile, you just cant buff that sucker carelessly without having a maxim spam meta all over again.
Maybe maxims could enjoy acc bonus when their vet1 is used... they are durable enough and vet quite fast
maxim spam would never have been a serious thing if their support (conscripts) were ever actually a threat/ usable unit. even now, if you do not have a doctrine with ppshs, you are throwing the game by building more than a pair of cons, and thats more for a snare than anything. they are supposed to be supported but their support has always outperformed them. they are so garbage they are straight up replaced whenever possible. people dont sprinkle penals or guards into their lineup as a booster for their cons, they take the hit of lower output and ignore them.
as long as cons are garbage you will have maxim spam or a maxim that is no good unless spammed because going t1 and 2 isnt viable when it counts and t0 offers nothing by means of making less than paired up maxims viable.
people are afraid of maxim spam returning are the sam that make sure that penal spam is here to stay and that you will never see a maxim outside of a maxim spam.
#stalinwept
1 Oct 2018, 01:15 AM
#149
Posts: 2358
as long as cons are garbage you will have maxim spam
I get the point, but makes sense that conscripts of being bad, they are cheap and poorly trained. At least conscripts are very versatile, and durable. Maybe its part of the faction desing for it main infantry to be a "supportive" one. Im not gonna lie, its weird.
Meanwhile maxims, any troop get significantly stronger when paired, specially Mgs that need time to set up and pick up. I dont really mind maxims getting suppression buffs. If maxims get spammed again, their counters could receibe buffs aswell.
1 Oct 2018, 04:36 AM
#150
Posts: 3053
Welp, about time this thread got hijacked to complain about other totally unrelated stuff lol.
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1 Oct 2018, 09:44 AM
#151
Posts: 3143 | Subs: 2
Welp, about time this thread got hijacked to complain about other totally unrelated stuff lol.
I sort of of hijacked the "Looking at the USF" topic as well because of the lack of a British mortar.
But my idea is to bring awareness to the issue not derail the topic.
Anyhow I think that since all of these topics are addressing similar issues talking about them in any of them is alright I guess, I mean you can't really go around with the ban hammer forcing people to stick to a given topic's issue when they're all sort of related to one another so to speak, it's just human nature I suppose.
I've had a lot of talks with strangers that started with "Oh excuse me for bumping into you" to basically "So yeah I'm looking for a new job now".
1 Oct 2018, 22:07 PM
#152
Posts: 220
The maxim I don't really think needs a buff, sure it takes ages to pin but it redeploys fast and all other soviet infantry perform exceedingly well, penals and guards are probably the best infantry in the game right now, (seriously, hit the dirt and sticky satchels are goddamn awesome) The soviets don't rely on the maxim to support their infantry, UKF require the vickers in order to compete at all early game and to lock down areas to prevent just being rolled back to base.
Conscripts are cheap, but really powerful if you ask me, not only do they have access to inceniary nades and snares, they trade out very well against volksgrenadiers and wipe the floor with most things except dedicated assault infantry with ppshs, but yeah I think they're probably relegated to a support role with the current strength of penals and guards, but I don't think that's because conscripts are bad, I think it's just guards and penals are too good not to use.
Conscripts are cheap, but really powerful if you ask me, not only do they have access to inceniary nades and snares, they trade out very well against volksgrenadiers and wipe the floor with most things except dedicated assault infantry with ppshs, but yeah I think they're probably relegated to a support role with the current strength of penals and guards, but I don't think that's because conscripts are bad, I think it's just guards and penals are too good not to use.
1 Oct 2018, 22:49 PM
#153
Posts: 3053
The maxim I don't really think needs a buff, sure it takes ages to pin but it redeploys fast and all other soviet infantry perform exceedingly well, penals and guards are probably the best infantry in the game right now, (seriously, hit the dirt and sticky satchels are goddamn awesome) The soviets don't rely on the maxim to support their infantry, UKF require the vickers in order to compete at all early game and to lock down areas to prevent just being rolled back to base.
Conscripts are cheap, but really powerful if you ask me, not only do they have access to inceniary nades and snares, they trade out very well against volksgrenadiers and wipe the floor with most things except dedicated assault infantry with ppshs, but yeah I think they're probably relegated to a support role with the current strength of penals and guards, but I don't think that's because conscripts are bad, I think it's just guards and penals are too good not to use.
Maxim is 6 men and can get merged by conscripts, IMO it’s more or less fine as it is. It still does its job and has a great vet1 ability that everyone forgets about that lets it belt feed directly from the Red Army armory or something.
@ A.soldier: yeah I’m not saying it’s an exclusively bad thing or anything, just pointing out that it went from “fix brits” to “maxim discussion #16373928479302” lol.
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2 Oct 2018, 01:27 AM
#154
Posts: 220
Maxim is 6 men and can get merged by conscripts, IMO it’s more or less fine as it is. It still does its job and has a great vet1 ability that everyone forgets about that lets it belt feed directly from the Red Army armory or something.
@ A.soldier: yeah I’m not saying it’s an exclusively bad thing or anything, just pointing out that it went from “fix brits” to “maxim discussion #16373928479302” lol.
^^^^ +1 for Stalin's bottomless Magazine. XD
2 Oct 2018, 02:57 AM
#155
Posts: 422 | Subs: 2
What if
It would be fairly easy to spot to avoid and it solves the problem of Brit muni starve.
It would be fairly easy to spot to avoid and it solves the problem of Brit muni starve.
Japan:
-no unit preservation ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
2 Oct 2018, 03:27 AM
#156
Posts: 1979
that would not cause a maxim doom invasion at all. Just make it shoot lazers like the Flak HT tread. There is no middleground in discussions with you.
Also, why always whining? always crying and seeking attention, what are you 5 years old?
Keep the forums polite, stop spamming and flamming and maybe someone will start hearing what you say... even those nonesenses.
Maybe if you stopped playing the victim card people will take you more seriously... i didnt even flame or insult you that time yet here you are playing the victim...
As per maxims have you tried playing sov? Cons are soo shit you HAVE to get maxims just to survive...
also i mentioned maxim spam is linked to conscripts being shit... yet you never acknowledged by statement but acknowledged darkarmadillos...
Also have you ever considered that you might be the problem? You claimed okw to be UP despite the 70% winrate and despite multiple players telling you otherwise... ulumullu excluded... hes biased af
2 Oct 2018, 03:33 AM
#157
Posts: 1979
The maxim I don't really think needs a buff, sure it takes ages to pin but it redeploys fast and all other soviet infantry perform exceedingly well, penals and guards are probably the best infantry in the game right now, (seriously, hit the dirt and sticky satchels are goddamn awesome) The soviets don't rely on the maxim to support their infantry, UKF require the vickers in order to compete at all early game and to lock down areas to prevent just being rolled back to base.
Conscripts are cheap, but really powerful if you ask me, not only do they have access to inceniary nades and snares, they trade out very well against volksgrenadiers and wipe the floor with most things except dedicated assault infantry with ppshs, but yeah I think they're probably relegated to a support role with the current strength of penals and guards, but I don't think that's because conscripts are bad, I think it's just guards and penals are too good not to use.
Have you tried a soviet T2 build lately? Without cons-ppsh its downright unplayable...
Maxims are soo bad it takes 2 to stop a volks squad from frontally rushing and flamenading it...
Sov T1 is the build usually used competitively especially against OKW... T2 is competitive only vs ostheer and must use a ppsh doctrine...
Regardless a T1 sov build is still very devastating to ostheer... and as per my experience had much greater success with T1 over T2...
As per conscripts? The molotov is crap... their dps is crap... they get no weapon upgrade and they bleed like a stuffed pig... sure they get at grenades mines and sandbags... but 240 manpower is better spent saving up for a penal imo...
2 Oct 2018, 03:41 AM
#158
Posts: 1979
I get the point, but makes sense that conscripts of being bad, they are cheap and poorly trained. At least conscripts are very versatile, and durable. Maybe its part of the faction desing for it main infantry to be a "supportive" one. Im not gonna lie, its weird.
Meanwhile maxims, any troop get significantly stronger when paired, specially Mgs that need time to set up and pick up. I dont really mind maxims getting suppression buffs. If maxims get spammed again, their counters could receibe buffs aswell.
Maxims will always be spammed so long as conscripts remain shit... buffing their counters means leaving sov T2 in the dust...
Sov T2 is already uncompetitive against OKw regardless... and competitive against OST only with the PPSH... otherwise you wouldnt see a T2 build in the GCS tournament...
2 Oct 2018, 04:04 AM
#159
Posts: 1979
Maxim is 6 men and can get merged by conscripts, IMO it’s more or less fine as it is. It still does its job and has a great vet1 ability that everyone forgets about that lets it belt feed directly from the Red Army armory or something.
The the maxim is only really useful against a blobnoob who just attacks in 1 angle.. and you have to get 2 of em... the moment a player realizes he can attack from more than 1 angle the maxim is most likely gonna get deathlooped
Yes this is true for all MGs but the maxim is the worst offender due to the combination of
1. Worst suppression for an MG ingame
2. One of the worst arcs ingame
3. Deathloop nuff said
4. Conscripts being made of cotton candy
5. No access to decent infantry for T2 builds (emphasis on 5)
2 Oct 2018, 04:34 AM
#160
Posts: 3053
What if
It would be fairly easy to spot to avoid and it solves the problem of Brit muni starve.
I like the idea, but I’m a little worried about the potential spammability.
At least lowering the cost to like 30 or so would help a lot. It really doesn’t have much of an impact and is very easy to avoid.
A free smoke flare thrown the same way would be great too. Maybe make it unusable if the squad is suppressed to avoid riflesmoke on riflemen part 2 (the throw range of the arty flares is also way shorter than riflesmoke and the smoke would come a bit slower too).
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