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Are UKF dead in 1v1?

6 Sep 2018, 17:45 PM
#41
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Sep 2018, 07:30 AMLago


They mean there's no reason to show your opponent you have a Puma until a vehicle appears for it to shoot.


Since Puma usually comes after other LVs this shouldn't take too long.
And TheGentlemenTroll just wanted to imply that it is impossible to kill Puma with Flanking because a Puma never reveals himself before he sees your AEC + gets supported by Volks or Raketen



If you do this flank then the puma would likely be behind volks using its longer range. In that case volks can easily respond to it and if the AEC gets snared its dead.

If you flank the enemy then you won't run straight into him therefore the Pumas range does not help him that much (except hes awating you and already turned his turret into your direction)



Bofors sucks ass

It needs like 0,5 Nanoseconds to kill Lvs, is effective against infantry, can give light arty support and is basically unbeatable by OKW if they go T2 till Pz 4 (or T1 backtech).

and is a mp fuel sink

280 MP and 30 fuel isn't that much for such an unit.


There is a reason OKW has a 70+% win rate against Brits

What I heard so far: OKW had a win rate of 70 % in the last Community Contest against UKF
What I want to know: Where the players all on the same level and how much People took part in the contest ?

and its (I believe) in part that the brits are super weak to early LVs

AEC can counter most LVs pretty easy (Puma is a struggle but usually doesn't come on same time as AEC) and AT guns + PIATs do also exist.

6 Sep 2018, 18:27 PM
#42
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1





What I heard so far: OKW had a win rate of 70 % in the last Community Contest against UKF
What I want to know: Where the players all on the same level and how much People took part in the contest ?




Its GCS2, in which all the best players of the game were competing with one another so its fair to say they are of same skill. The stats have a total of 314 total game of which the OKW vs Brits match up had 30 games which okw won 21. Brits were only picked 45/314 games at the highest level of play.
6 Sep 2018, 20:43 PM
#43
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



At least it protects against Snares, unlike Puma smoke which doesn't protect against satchels and some other AT nades (this is because of other reasons not because of the smoke itself but it still is an advantage)



No. Just because you don't buy more than one it doesn't mean other players do so too. And since you do not have to pay the 15 fuel and 100 MP for every AEC again it is not part of the unit cost.


Then what is your point? AEC as a single unit is cheaper than Puma and even its Overall cost are still less than for Puma.



And I never said that you claimed this. I just asked where your AEC is when your enemy has Luchs + Puma and advised you trying to build bofors if your enemy goes for T2 (and you haven't AEC yet) since OKWs T2 can barly do anything against them.


While OKW has 3-4 (4-5 Volks is something I barely see / do) squads with snares you have 4 or more units which can be upgraded with AT weapons


AEC, Sniper, Mines and PIAT.



Keep distance and do not rush into the enemy. And if they flank you then use smoke in order to make the snares useless



Have you tried using PIATS, AT guns, Mines or Bofors? And at least OKWs light vehicles (which actually are able to fight against enemy troops) come out after T0 and cost some fuel


Sure, if neither unit moves laterally at all.

If you buy more than one aec you probably have no idea what you’re doing. When have you ever seen anyone who knows what they’re doing build more than one anti tank focused light vehicle (other than the old su76)? Just wanted to make the point that the aec is somewhat more expensive than people usually think it is because of the teching cost.

Doesn’t the puma outrange the bofors? And if you don’t go aec you’re mostly at the mercy of their vehicles on pretty much the rest of the map.

PIATS on sections is an objectively bad idea, if you don’t know why go look it up, so it’s really more like 1-2 squads. You are right that 4-5 volks is pretty rare and kind of dumb.

All that stuff is great, but it isn’t the same as actual infantry snares. You even included PIATS for some weird reason. They don’t engine damage or anything. Didn’t volks used to not have fausts? And then everyone complained despite having mines and the puma snare (which actually snares light vehicles as opposed to the aec)? And a t3 building that counters lights just as well as the bofors (so IMO not very well but you brought the bofors up).

Keep distance with a unit that has longer range than yours? Sounds like a great counter.
7 Sep 2018, 18:15 PM
#44
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



Its GCS2, in which all the best players of the game were competing with one another so its fair to say they are of same skill. The stats have a total of 314 total game of which the OKW vs Brits match up had 30 games which okw won 21. Brits were only picked 45/314 games at the highest level of play.


Thank you.



Sure, if neither unit moves laterally at all.

1. Use smoke
2. Drive backwards out of it
3. ????
4. Profit


If you buy more than one aec you probably have no idea what you’re doing.

When you loose one you always have the option to get another one (f.e in late game). It is your choice. Do it or do it not but don't say that the Upgrade price is part of the AECs unit price.

When have you ever seen anyone who knows what they’re doing build more than one anti tank focused light vehicle (other than the old su76)?

Puma, T 70 and Su 76 often get build multiple times.

Just wanted to make the point that the aec is somewhat more expensive than people usually think it is because of the teching cost.

But this costs goes to the AECs overall cost and not its unitprice. And there is a reason for this since otherwise AEC would come even before Flak-HT(on the other hand UKFs T1 would come too late if the price would be added to the T1 tech price)


Doesn’t the puma outrange the bofors?

Yes but only slightly and at this range the Puma won't hit that much since it has to use "Hit the ground" also it is still in the Bofors Arty Ability range(which doesn't hit that much either but does a decent amount of damage if it hits)


And if you don’t go aec you’re mostly at the mercy of their vehicles on pretty much the rest of the map.

I know it depends on the map but try to lock down both VPs + fuel with one bofor on them and cover the mid with mines or AT gun.


PIATS on sections is an objectively bad idea

Why? When you have 5 men squads and add one Piat to them you would still have the firepower of a normal Section. And doesn't the increased accuracy also apply to PIATs ?

You even included PIATS for some weird reason.

He claimed that UKF has nothing to deal with Light vehicles. I just wanted to show some of the options they have when it comes to dealing with light vehicles.


Didn’t volks used to not have fausts? And then everyone complained despite having mines and the puma snare (which actually snares light vehicles as opposed to the aec)?

Back then they also had Schrecks. And don't get me wrong. I support the idea of UKF Pioneers getting snares but I think that a lot of people are exaggerating when it comes to UKFs performance. (Puma snares? The last time I used its ablity (has been a while) it only kind of stunned the other vehicle for some time)


And a t3 building that counters lights just as well as the bofors (so IMO not very well but you brought the bofors up).

By the time T3 gets set up you usally do not have to deal with LVs that much anymore. Also it offers no brace or arty ability can't repair itself and nowdays barly gets placed at the front line since it is quite easy to kill and loosing it mostly means "GG" for the OKW player. Also I don't think that it is as effevtive as the bofors(at least I never saw it ripping apart LVs in uner 4 seconds like the bofors)


Keep distance with a unit that has longer range than yours? Sounds like a great counter.

Volks-Faust has a longer range than AEC?
7 Sep 2018, 21:09 PM
#45
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Thank you.



1. Use smoke
2. Drive backwards out of it
3. ????
4. Profit


When you loose one you always have the option to get another one (f.e in late game). It is your choice. Do it or do it not but don't say that the Upgrade price is part of the AECs unit price.


Puma, T 70 and Su 76 often get build multiple times.


But this costs goes to the AECs overall cost and not its unitprice. And there is a reason for this since otherwise AEC would come even before Flak-HT(on the other hand UKFs T1 would come too late if the price would be added to the T1 tech price)


Yes but only slightly and at this range the Puma won't hit that much since it has to use "Hit the ground" also it is still in the Bofors Arty Ability range(which doesn't hit that much either but does a decent amount of damage if it hits)


I know it depends on the map but try to lock down both VPs + fuel with one bofor on them and cover the mid with mines or AT gun.


Why? When you have 5 men squads and add one Piat to them you would still have the firepower of a normal Section. And doesn't the increased accuracy also apply to PIATs ?


He claimed that UKF has nothing to deal with Light vehicles. I just wanted to show some of the options they have when it comes to dealing with light vehicles.


Back then they also had Schrecks. And don't get me wrong. I support the idea of UKF Pioneers getting snares but I think that a lot of people are exaggerating when it comes to UKFs performance. (Puma snares? The last time I used its ablity (has been a while) it only kind of stunned the other vehicle for some time)


By the time T3 gets set up you usally do not have to deal with LVs that much anymore. Also it offers no brace or arty ability can't repair itself and nowdays barly gets placed at the front line since it is quite easy to kill and loosing it mostly means "GG" for the OKW player. Also I don't think that it is as effevtive as the bofors(at least I never saw it ripping apart LVs in uner 4 seconds like the bofors)


Volks-Faust has a longer range than AEC?

More like
1. Use smoke
2. Get snared anyway because of pathing.
3. ???
4. Enemy profits

That’s not really the issue with aec smoke anyway, it’s when fighting other vehicles because they are both moving a lot faster in that situation so the thinness of the smoke hurts more.

You CAN build one. Just like you CAN build 10 volks squads and nothing else and you CAN just never tech up with any faction. That doesn’t mean anyone actually trying to win will do those things.

Outranging at all is still outranging and you can always spot with something else so you can directly attack it. Or you can literally just not go in the ~100 square meters it actually covers and win on the rest of the map.

Have fun trying to use that against anyone who knows what they’re doing.

Well since you won’t look it up: (unless this got patched but to the best of my knowledge it didn’t) sections have very bad reload speed out of cover and that’s what the in cover reload speed buff is essentially for. This means that chasing down (out of cover) tanks with a section with a PIATs (which have 1 round per magazine/load) is a lot less efficient than literally any other unit holding PIATs. Also putting PIATs on sections means you have no anti infantry on them, which is a waste of a semi expensive squad. There’s better things to put PIATs on and that many more PIATs wouldn’t have a large enough return to be worth the sacrifice to infantry fighting ability (even with out of cover debuffs notwithstanding).

That every other faction has in some forms as well. It’d be like saying “oh, you don’t have a machine gun? Well, you have rifles so it’s pretty much fine”.

For a time they didn’t have fausts even after the schrecks were moved and replaced with stgs. People complained hard enough that it got changed within like 1 patch IIRC. People even complained when they didn’t have fausts as soon as the first sWs truck comes out (I’m not saying they’re wrong for it or anything, it’s just a fact). And when I play against ukf, I feel a lot safer diving and flanking their tanks than against any other faction because as long as you avoid good mine spots then you have almost no chance of losing mobility. Crushing infantry sections is also fun too. And yes, puma snares light vehicles. I believe it turret locks mediums (for a pretty long time too). It’s conditional on what class of vehicle it’s fired at like the Brit sniper.

True that you don’t have to deal with them so much, but you still can’t just drive up to the thing at that point and be fine. There’s still the period between setting it up and getting another ~150 fuel for real tank too, and it can impede flanking in general because it tends to deal a lot of vehicle crits (even to real tanks). It’s not as effective but it’s also just as free as usf officers are.
8 Sep 2018, 00:30 AM
#46
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518


More like
1. Use smoke
2. Get snared anyway because of pathing.
3. ???
4. Enemy profits

If you use your smoke before he fires his faust he won't be able to target you


Outranging at all is still outranging and you can always spot with something else so you can directly attack it.

The only way of spotting it would be to use Raketen. And unless he completly ignores his Bofor you shouldn't be able to bring it down with a single Puma even with LoS.


Or you can literally just not go in the ~100 square meters it actually covers and win on the rest of the map.

There is the problem. Which rest of the map? The UKF player just has to place one Bofor next to both fuels and Vps and all you can try is to cut him off.


Have fun trying to use that against anyone who knows what they’re doing.

Actually had fun with this tactic (mostly 2 vs 2)


This means that chasing down (out of cover) tanks with a section with a PIATs (which have 1 round per magazine/load) is a lot less efficient than literally any other unit holding PIATs.

But this also means that PIAT in cover is a lot more effective on IS than on most other units.



Also putting PIATs on sections means you have no anti infantry on them

You still have 3-4 guys with rifles left if you have upgraded to 5 models.


which is a waste of a semi expensive squad.

What about Panzergrens and Sturmpionners ?


For a time they didn’t have fausts even after the schrecks were moved and replaced with stgs.

This means that during this time OKWs only AT ability for Infantry was the 1X Schreck upgrade for SP(does it?)

And yes, puma snares light vehicles. I believe it turret locks mediums

Rarly used the Stun on LVs(and if I did it mostly finished them) so I only was aware about the Stun for mediums.


True that you don’t have to deal with them so much, but you still can’t just drive up to the thing at that point and be fine.

Unless you show him your rear armor you should be fine since it has a slow rate of fire and needs to reload after every 4th (or 5th) shot(that is also the reason why it isn't nearly as good aginst LVs as Bofors is)


It’s not as effective but it’s also just as free as usf officers are.

Free? As far as I know its high price is (partly) because of its gun (which doesn't see that much action anymore since placing it anywhere else than in your base causes as huge risk of loosing it).
8 Sep 2018, 06:46 AM
#47
avatar of Dead Bear

Posts: 59

The problem of brit is no snare . ost sniper . 1 click puma . useless enplacement and abandoned comet line...
I am moderate player and 18 at ost/brit . might be biased. yes ukf at gcs is painful to watch with only 30% win ratio
8 Sep 2018, 11:18 AM
#48
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

The problem of brit is no snare .

In the next patch they will get them

ost sniper .

I don't see how OST sniper is a bigger threat to UKF than SU sniper to OKW/OST

useless enplacement

Against OST stuff like Bofors and Mortar pit are pretty fragile (due Mortar HT, non dech depenting Mortar and Pak 40) but against OKW they can cause a decent problem (especially when OKW player goes T2 and has no Arty for a long time)
8 Sep 2018, 11:41 AM
#49
avatar of Dead Bear

Posts: 59


In the next patch they will get them


I don't see how OST sniper is a bigger threat to UKF than SU sniper to OKW/OST


Against OST stuff like Bofors and Mortar pit are pretty fragile (due Mortar HT, non dech depenting Mortar and Pak 40) but against OKW they can cause a decent problem (especially when OKW player goes T2 and has no Arty for a long time)


I checked ur playercard and u didnt even played 10 game brit ... honestly i dont think discussing units with u is appropriate .
8 Sep 2018, 12:01 PM
#50
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518



I checked ur playercard and u didnt even played 10 game brit ... honestly i dont think discussing units with u is appropriate .


I mostly play 2 vs 2 (a game mod where you have far less matches than me).
But im still curious. Why is OST sniper such a big threat to UKF compared to other ones?
8 Sep 2018, 12:05 PM
#51
avatar of Dead Bear

Posts: 59



I mostly play 2 vs 2 (a game mod where you have far less matches than me).
But im still curious. Why is OST sniper such a big threat to UKF compared to other ones?


maybe u find it out by start playing 1v1? as the title ask 'Are UKF dead in 1v1'. u are 2W5L at 1v1 brit and im still curious why u believed is ukf not dead in 1v1.
8 Sep 2018, 12:14 PM
#52
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518


maybe u find it out by start playing 1v1?

I do (mostly as OKW,SU and OST and not as much as 2 vs 2 but I do)

u are 2W5L at 1v1 brit

I know this doens't sound credible at all but I lost 2 matches out of those 5 ones because the game crashed

and im still curious why u believed is ukf not dead in 1v1.

Because I face them with OKW and OST and for a dead fraction they aren't that easy to beat.
8 Sep 2018, 12:19 PM
#53
avatar of Dead Bear

Posts: 59


Which I do (as OKW,SU and OST and not as much as 2 vs 2 but I do)


I know this doens't sound credible at all but I lost 2 matches out of those 5 ones because the game crashed


Because I face them with OKW and OST and for a dead fraction they aren't that easy to beat.


u played only 7 game . just 7 and then come and comment on 1v1 balance .. cmon is that appropriate?
I am moderate leveled player played 600 ukf+ost and i still believed I can be biased. If u are 2v2 guy u are at the wrong thread I believed. Watch the title please.
8 Sep 2018, 14:39 PM
#54
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1094

Just want to say that they are pretty poo in team games too. Not as pronounced as in 1v1 but it still shows.

I think that the sexton buff will help as at the moment so many players still pick that awful commander for some reason.
8 Sep 2018, 15:49 PM
#55
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518


u played only 7 game . just 7 and then come and comment on 1v1 balance ..

I played 3 more games and won them all. Now im rank 573 and level 7 with them (for comparison: with OKW (my most played faction in 1 vs 1) I am lvl 6 and also worse when it comes to the rank(even when converted to an OKW rank because UKF has less players)).


cmon is that appropriate?

Since I have played with OST and OKW against UKF I can tell how it feels playing against them and also I can tell how it feels playing against OKW and OST as UKF. So where is the problem?

If u are 2v2 guy u are at the wrong thread I believed. Watch the title please.

I also play 1 vs 1. Just because I mainly play 2 vs 2 it doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to discuss about "1 vs 1" balance
8 Sep 2018, 16:35 PM
#56
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Well, matrix, you obviously don’t have enough experience to be talking about the British at all. Winning 5 games or whatever is easy at that Ollie of a rank. I could go do that right now on okw, soviets, or ostheer 4v4 and claim I know everything about their balance, but I’d be wrong. Also, if your most played faction is only level 6 then you haven’t played enough at any higher level period. It shows in your arguments and it shows in your self proclaimed game experience.

(For comparison I’m ranked 114 as brits in 1v1. I’m far from being super super good but we’re on very different levels here and you don’t even have enough play time with the faction to be saying anything.)
8 Sep 2018, 20:23 PM
#57
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

Well, matrix, you obviously don’t have enough experience to be talking about the British at all.

So experience in 2 vs 2 doesn't count?



Also, if your most played faction is only level 6 then you haven’t played enough at any higher level period.

I once used to be much better (around rank 800 and around level 8 with OKW) but in the last months I dropped pretty hard(same goes for 2 vs 2).



It shows in your arguments and it shows in your self proclaimed game experience.

Which of my arguments shows that I do not have enough experience? Where did I claimed that I have a very good experience?



and you don’t even have enough play time with the faction to be saying anything.)

Why ? While I haven't played that much with UKF I have faced them several times with OKW and OST (and even more often in 2 vs 2). So why shouldn't I say how it usually feels playing against them ?
Also I find it very interesting that I get blamed for posting on balance thread even tho I have "no" experience but People like Katitof are apparently totally OK

EDIT: So I just looked your profile up (is it this one ? And (in case this actually is your Profile) what the garden. You blame me for not having enough experience with UKF to talk about balance and meanwhile you only have 12 matches more with OKW than me with UKF.
8 Sep 2018, 21:11 PM
#58
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

So experience in 2 vs 2 doesn't count?


Not in a thread specifically about 1v1. The two modes are completely different beasts.
9 Sep 2018, 01:50 AM
#59
avatar of Dead Bear

Posts: 59


I played 3 more games and won them all. Now im rank 573 and level 7 with them (for comparison: with OKW (my most played faction in 1 vs 1) I am lvl 6 and also worse when it comes to the rank(even when converted to an OKW rank because UKF has less players)).


Since I have played with OST and OKW against UKF I can tell how it feels playing against them and also I can tell how it feels playing against OKW and OST as UKF. So where is the problem?


I also play 1 vs 1. Just because I mainly play 2 vs 2 it doesn't mean that I shouldn't be able to discuss about "1 vs 1" balance


ye of course .. a guy played less then 8 game know more about balance issue to a lv18 played > 800 game .. omg .Fine, my time is precious and I would rather not wasting with u here.The vote shown everything.
9 Sep 2018, 09:31 AM
#60
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Sep 2018, 21:11 PMLago


Not in a thread specifically about 1v1. The two modes are completely different beasts.


The gameplay performs diffrent but the troops performance stays the same. (And loopdloop was implying that I have no experience at all)



ye of course .. a guy played less then 8 game know more about balance issue to a lv18 played > 800 game


Never claimed I know more about balance than you.
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