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(2) Semoskiy Winter

Does anyone want this map updated?
Option Distribution Votes
75%
17%
8%
Total votes: 12
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
10 Aug 2018, 06:36 AM
#1
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 972 | Subs: 2

The south spawn on this map is heavily favored. Until I spent 2 hours fixing it.

(2) Semoskiy Winter

1. All major points are perfectly balanced for distance (WHITE arrows).
2. A few fences had to be opened to get the points balanced (GREEN).
3. Left side needed houses (1,2) moved around to try and mimic the right side. Could be better. Sight blocker around house 2 to limit its usefullness.
4. House 6 was moved away from the cutoff to mirror south.
5. Lake above middle VP made smaller to allow for point adjustment and land balance with south. House 7 added to take up space and mirror shed south of church. Could use some more objects to eat up a little more space.
6. Hedges by left fuel rotated so house(3) by VP does not interact with the fuel. House 5 has correct distance and placement alredy to balance with right fuel house.
7. Hedges around left VP modified so VP is not closed in.
8. Added a new spawn location for south base.
9. Added red cover between right fuel and TP to mirror west side roads.
10. Smoothed down many of the large hills.


STILL NEEDS:
1. South base spawns on RED cover road, north does not. Advantage south.
2. Needs a minimap update. Houses are all wrong. Existing minimap is wrong size. Should be 768x768 but is 300x300.
3. Closer look at far right side balance between land and river.
4. More hill reduction.

ORIGINAL MAP DISTANCE IMBALANCES

10 Aug 2018, 06:54 AM
#2
avatar of Stark

Posts: 563 | Subs: 1

Your text..

I would go with other direction Rosbone. Not to reduce the distance for north player but expand the distance for a south player. Therefore top left corner won't be empty and useless.

Remember that this map is 2v2 as well. There is way more units there so the bigger the map the smaller slaughter house it will be later game.

That empty spaces near the bases (not connected to any terrytory point) could be reworked. that would allow using that sector for okw player to put their trucks, building bunkers or heavy artylery.
10 Aug 2018, 07:56 AM
#3
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1484 | Subs: 2

This map should be a either be committed to 2v2 or 1v1 and then iterated on.

I am massive fan of Relic, they're my fav RTS developer but as someone who has worked in the games industry for 8 years as a designer, I'm baffled by their strategy when it comes to maps.

10 Aug 2018, 16:23 PM
#6
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4873 | Subs: 18

Set red atm.
For some reason:
1. This map will not exist anymore in 1vs1.

2. Your pathtimes are not full correct. Its more complicated how the map works. Mono and me did a good job already in the first version.
South player to the west VP is 177m. North player to east VP is 175m
South physically cannot get the east VP first. It's not a mirrored map.
It was never supposed to be. The cutoffs aren't equal either, for the same reason. It's a circular map.
The maps works unless you want to hold all 3 VPs.

--> In your version you changed the left vp. But with that you will change the south to left vp pathtime as well. for example.

You can win from north side in 2vs2. Nobody says this map is the best 2vs2 map. But it was way worser in the past.


3. I disagree with some points in your reworked version.

4. time
10 Aug 2018, 17:29 PM
#7
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 972 | Subs: 2

Set red atm.
For some reason:
1. This map will not exist anymore in 1vs1.

I was operating under this ORG post #12 saying the 1v1 version will still be in automatch.



--> In your version you changed the left vp. But with that you will change the south to left vp pathtime as well. for example.

Yes the 1st version I made it was exact from either direction.



You can win from north side in 2vs2. Nobody says this map is the best 2vs2 map. But it was way worser in the past.

I only looked at the 1v1 map, since that is most critical. I think everyone is tired of watching tournaments play match 1+2 on Crossroads then game 3 on a few others.

3. I disagree with some points in your reworked version.

Good! I spent about 45 minutes fixing it, then another hour adjusting stupid stuff. I am sure I did not get it perfect in 45 minutes :p And we need some debate to get to the best possible version that is the whole point of these threads!


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Aug 2018, 06:54 AMStark

I would go with other direction Rosbone. Not to reduce the distance for north player but expand the distance for a south player. Therefore top left corner won't be empty and useless.

Remember that this map is 2v2 as well. There is way more units there so the bigger the map the smaller slaughter house it will be later game.

I went smaller because I was thinking more competitive 1v1 map. This map is way too big for 1v1 especially with cutoffs tucked into the far recesses of the abyss!

The way the points are laid out, I see north pushing left. Not getting their fuel for some reason (sturms, rng, etc) By now the south will have their fuel and have it covered by a building. The game is over.

The south building you can pop in and get vision then pop out and take the fuel. The north you can not. Again the most important 1st engagement on the map. The fuel buildings have to go.

I never play 1v1 for these reasons. The maps are usually very bad. To the point of not being fun. As I have said numerous times, the middle 100 meters is all you need to make a great 4v4 map. A 1v1 map needs to be good everywhere.
10 Aug 2018, 18:17 PM
#8
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 972 | Subs: 2

Rosbone version 1 VP distances:


The middle VP is slightly south favored but it could not be moved any further north due to how the buildings are laid out.
10 Aug 2018, 18:53 PM
#9
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 972 | Subs: 2

To show why I made the north points closer and to get a conversation going on what makes a good 1v1 map.

Distances across the front lines for Semoskiy and Crossroads:


Distances from corner important points to corner important points:
Semoskiy: 318 meters
Crossroads: 245 meters

How many matches have you seen on crossroads where no one caps the muni in the corner because it is too far out of the way. And it is only 245m corner to corner. But on Semoskiy you have to cap that point at 318m.
10 Aug 2018, 18:53 PM
#10
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4873 | Subs: 18

Yes relic and me had another discussion^^

and well semokisy is a 2vs2 map as well. thats why.

But pls read the 4 reasons from me back :)
10 Aug 2018, 19:09 PM
#11
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 972 | Subs: 2

Yes relic and me had another discussion^^

and well semokisy is a 2vs2 map as well. thats why.

But pls read the 4 reasons from me back :)

Excellent :crazy:

I will stop my annoying crusade for the 1v1 map update.

The 2v2 version would benefit from some of these changes as well.
- Like the extra land north has by the lake to gather their army.
- The wider road out of their base.

2v2 thru 4v4 balance is less important because you can always double up on a point. So you have more options. And that is what makes a great map: Size and strategy options.
11 Aug 2018, 07:15 AM
#12
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 610

Just do the world a favor and forever delete this map and burn it out of everyone's memory. God what a terrible map, thank God for vetos.
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