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russian armor

How to counter multiple layers of Wehrmacht defenses

2 Aug 2018, 06:02 AM
#1
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

Fire and maneuver is easy to do when there is a single line of defenses. A smoke can do the work, while Allies push through in order to wipe and/or force MGs to retreat. In late game, things are easier, since Artillery is available.

But what happens where there are multiple layers (eg 2-3) of defenses? How can we counter what? What are we missing? (early/mid game)
2 Aug 2018, 11:24 AM
#2
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3186

SOV or USF? Shell the crap out of it.

UKF, curl up in the corner and cry.
2 Aug 2018, 11:30 AM
#3
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

I think if axis are building layered defense in CoH2, you're not applying enough pressure. I don't even know what you mean, to be honest. In all my games the axis fights you with all or almost all his force at all points in the game. Not to do so would surely spell defeat. It would probably help your case if you had some replays to help illustrate your point.
2 Aug 2018, 11:40 AM
#4
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2018, 11:30 AMNosliw
I think if axis are building layered defense in CoH2, you're not applying enough pressure. I don't even know what you mean, to be honest. In all my games the axis fights you with all or almost all his force at all points in the game. Not to do so would surely spell defeat. It would probably help your case if you had some replays to help illustrate your point.


I mean that Wehrmacht creates 2-3 defense lines. On the front they have machine guns, and right behind them, they have a bunker for example. So, when you try to smoke the MG to bypass it, the bunker behind the team weapon pins my troops.
2 Aug 2018, 11:57 AM
#5
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3186

If they've got overlapping suppression fields backed up by AT guns you'll need indirect fire. I've lost more games than I care to admit because I kept up an infantry composition that wasn't working instead of backteching for the mortars I needed.
2 Aug 2018, 15:39 PM
#6
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 26

If you're playing usf, a pair of howies will crack them apart np
2 Aug 2018, 15:48 PM
#7
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1502 | Subs: 1

If you're willing - Doctrinally Priest or Calliope are good at countering this (assuming you don't like to early lock in your commander). If your opponent is being super static then Scotts do okay but I prefer Pack Howies myself.
10 Aug 2018, 16:29 PM
#8
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 818 | Subs: 5

Infantry = Paper
MG = Scissors. Scissors rape Paper.
Mortar = Paper that throws rocks. If MG shoots mortar, MG wins (paper)
if Mortar out-distances MG, then Rocks crush Scissors.

If the enemy goes crazy with MGs, go crazy with mortars.
It'll make him cry, trust me :)

Also, you can throw more than one smoke at a time, you know.

As USA, having 1 mortar and 1 RE + grenades = 2 smokes.
If you have 2x Mortars, you can simult smoke 2 targets, then target ground with both of them
while they reload their barrage/smoke.

Also, the first armored vehicle will eat them alive
(rock vs scissors)

But then what if he has an AT?
Becomes an endless race of ah, but what if?
The essential is to understand the principle.

How about - you - play Germany? Go crazy with MGs and bunkers vs someone who goes nuts with mortars.
you will - oh - so understand :)

Germans refer to it as 'cancer' I believe :)
14 Aug 2018, 18:41 PM
#9
avatar of Kharn

Posts: 264

If he's setting up multiple lines of defense then he's spending his manpower and munitions on those bunkers. Meaning you should have superior infantry on the field and likely more munition heavy options. Bunkers dont mean shit to an AT gun or a tank.

Pack Howitzers are great, mortars, etc. Some of this sounds like a pressuring issue. Something not talked about enough, a friend of mine thats just getting into coh2 with me has the same issue. He's always running into machine guns.

Machine guns are like, the hard noob counter. Once you conquer them, you'll join the enlightened.
6 Oct 2018, 07:56 AM
#10
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2018, 18:41 PMKharn
If he's setting up multiple lines of defense then he's spending his manpower and munitions on those bunkers. Meaning you should have superior infantry on the field and likely more munition heavy options. Bunkers dont mean shit to an AT gun or a tank.

Pack Howitzers are great, mortars, etc. Some of this sounds like a pressuring issue. Something not talked about enough, a friend of mine thats just getting into coh2 with me has the same issue. He's always running into machine guns.

Machine guns are like, the hard noob counter. Once you conquer them, you'll join the enlightened.


So, how do i put pressure on Axis? Someone once said that as Allies, i should not try to dislocate Wehrmacht off map, but just force him to retreat. Alright, i do that, he retreats his MG. Then what's the next step? Move forward and capture points or fortify the area i just captured? What's the definition of pressure on Wehrmacht? How do i achieve that?
6 Oct 2018, 08:41 AM
#11
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 460

You should never give them time to build any you are doing something wrong you should have more pressure and micro/faster movements
6 Oct 2018, 08:47 AM
#12
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

You should never give them time to build any you are doing something wrong you should have more pressure and micro/faster movements


So this means that i should hold my ground and not retreat all my troops back to base.
6 Oct 2018, 09:18 AM
#13
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 460



So this means that i should hold my ground and not retreat all my troops back to base.
flank MGs take NO damage from MGs close the distance wtih grenadiers as much as you can (same with volks grenadiers) and build fighting postion to fuel or victory point as fast as you can with rear echelon or tech lieutenant fast as possible
6 Oct 2018, 10:13 AM
#14
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

Like others have mentioned, there are two different ways of dealing with bunkering players. First is applying lots of pressure, so they can't bunker up, the other is cracking the defence with whatever artillery you can build or find. Both are perfectly valid and both will give you easy wins against people stupid enough to rely on defences in coh2.

The difference is though that while the artillery strategy will easily crack the bunker up guys, it will fail miserably against anybody who knows how to apply pressure on allied player. On the other hand, if you learn how to apply pressure yourself at this point, that way of playing can easily haul you at least to the top 300 if not higher. This is simply the way the game is ment to be played. MG vs mortar slugfests is not.
6 Oct 2018, 12:28 PM
#15
avatar of RollingStone

Posts: 142



So, how do i put pressure on Axis? Someone once said that as Allies, i should not try to dislocate Wehrmacht off map, but just force him to retreat. Alright, i do that, he retreats his MG. Then what's the next step? Move forward and capture points or fortify the area i just captured? What's the definition of pressure on Wehrmacht? How do i achieve that?


Harras the hell'outa them. Flank as hard as one can, use never-used-before routes,like destroyed hangars on the right side of Port Haburg - noone ever cuts them off with razorwire/any defences at all, while you can flank behind enemy lines at ease.
Howewer, what most people dont know, you can sneak even further, using little bridge straight behind the victory point, getting to common spot for USF ambulance/UKF Forward-retreat-point.

Dont forget that OST have t0 MG, so it is top priority for you to lock down most common spots for them - building, trenches, whatever can be used to establish solid cover. Or, in case you sure you wont get there in time, then you can go straight for mortars/smokes-and-nades.

Also-also, another - humiliating and useless, one can say - way to counter bunkers can be achivied tru Airborne doctrine.

Your "Screaming Eagles" have the ability to plant short-fused demo-chargde(5 sec, or so), that can't be defused. So, what do you do?
1. Drop smoke barrage/smoke nade onto bunker.
2. Stupid krauts have to move up some grens for vision - note that they still cant shoot/see into the smoke.
3. Get your paratroopers next to bunker.
4. Plant their chardges.
5. "Whats that white circle on the ground? Probably, they dropped their m1919, gotta get it!" Hans, before noticing the timer on the cirlce.
6....
7. PROFIT!
6 Oct 2018, 20:09 PM
#16
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 969 | Subs: 2

A lot of people answered most points sufficiently.

Yes, how you play against this defensive line depends on what faction (and build) youre using, and most people already went over the general answers. I could go over the specifics of countering the defensive line with a faction + build, but id have to know which one.

As for the point about not letting an ostheer player set up and what to do about capturing ground, its kind of something you just have to learn by playing. There are too many factors you have to consider when deciding what to do when youve gained ground: (what units do my enemy and I have, how many units do the enemy and I have, how quickly can my enemys and my units get back to the "front," how low are my units, where are the cover positions/ positions of strength, do I have him cutoff/ can I cut him off, whats the resource balance, do I have healing).

If you want a more specific answer to anything youll have to provide a more specific question, unfortunately.
7 Oct 2018, 03:52 AM
#17
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306

A lot of people answered most points sufficiently.

Yes, how you play against this defensive line depends on what faction (and build) youre using, and most people already went over the general answers. I could go over the specifics of countering the defensive line with a faction + build, but id have to know which one.

As for the point about not letting an ostheer player set up and what to do about capturing ground, its kind of something you just have to learn by playing. There are too many factors you have to consider when deciding what to do when youve gained ground: (what units do my enemy and I have, how many units do the enemy and I have, how quickly can my enemys and my units get back to the "front," how low are my units, where are the cover positions/ positions of strength, do I have him cutoff/ can I cut him off, whats the resource balance, do I have healing).

If you want a more specific answer to anything youll have to provide a more specific question, unfortunately.


I play as USF because of their mobility. All their units are mobile and it helps me stay that way when i'm playing. Sometimes i go Lieutenant tier, build the M20 and start laying mines and flanking MGs. Next comes the AAHT which i sometimes use to deal with bunkers (they take them out pretty fast). And then i'm just saving for Major and tanks. I tech grenades after Major most of the times, because i don't use them a lot (i use smokes 100% though, frag grenades not that much)
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