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Angoville

17 Jun 2018, 01:28 AM
#1
avatar of ikab

Posts: 35

Top right side buildings are too close together.

Space them apart enough so that light vehicles can deal with them.
17 Jun 2018, 10:13 AM
#2
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 674 | Subs: 1

And what about the northern cut off, which south can easily take and camp, while having their own cut off pretty much protected by map itself.
Langreskaya has the same problem.
17 Jun 2018, 12:10 PM
#3
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1444

To be honest Angoville is so terribly designed that it probably should just be deleted from 1v1 map pool or stay in it´s current state. Just way too much stuff that would have to be changed to make the map even somewhat decent.
17 Jun 2018, 12:51 PM
#4
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

I understand that OP is playing at the highest level and slight map adjustments may make a difference there. But out of top 100, there are no bad maps, at least not in the current map pool. There are only maps that play in different ways. I would like everybody to keep that in mind as this thread continues.

I hear lots of rumbling about the 1v1 map pool in coh2. Even the maps that were used in design process of the game (kholodny) or whole franchise (agnoville) are being complained about.

Every time it happens, there seems to be somebody trying to force a removal of the map under discussion. Yet it seems that every map has its own group of haters.

So my proposal is as follows: let us first decide which maps are actually good, as right now we are going into the direction of playing one or two maps all the time. And I really think that making the game as boring as it sounds is not worth the slight improval of fairness.

So, before complaining on a map, please give me an example of map that does things right, especially the thing you complain about right now.
17 Jun 2018, 13:48 PM
#5
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 674 | Subs: 1

I understand that OP is playing at the highest level and slight map adjustments may make a difference there. But out of top 100, there are no bad maps, at least not in the current map pool. There are only maps that play in different ways. I would like everybody to keep that in mind as this thread continues.

I hear lots of rumbling about the 1v1 map pool in coh2. Even the maps that were used in design process of the game (kholodny) or whole franchise (agnoville) are being complained about.

Every time it happens, there seems to be somebody trying to force a removal of the map under discussion. Yet it seems that every map has its own group of haters.

So my proposal is as follows: let us first decide which maps are actually good, as right now we are going into the direction of playing one or two maps all the time. And I really think that making the game as boring as it sounds is not worth the slight improval of fairness.

So, before complaining on a map, please give me an example of map that does things right, especially the thing you complain about right now.

Among 1vs1 Arnhem Checkpoint does the cut off balance very well
17 Jun 2018, 14:14 PM
#6
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885


Among 1vs1 Arnhem Checkpoint does the cut off balance very well


What is the actual difference in favour of arnhem? Both agnoville and arnhem have 2 cutoffs. On both maps one of the cutoffs is guarded by a building. Actually, on agnoville both cutoffs have equal building advantage on cutoffs, while arnhem top cutoff can be capped out of the building range and the south one hugs a church. So IMO agnoville is doing cutoffs slightly better.
A_E
18 Jun 2018, 15:02 PM
#7
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2123 | Subs: 4

Angoville does not work as well with a true sight setting.

Angovile does not work with CoH2's retarded 'standard territory point' system vs. the original 'strategic point system'.

Remove Angoville from CoH2 - it doesn't work with these systems.

Same as Semois.

Angoville is the first map ever crafted for Company of Heroes, it is legendary, and doesn't deserve this.

Remove it from CoH2 and have done with it.
19 Jun 2018, 19:30 PM
#8
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 15:02 PMA_E
Angoville does not work as well with a true sight setting.

Angovile does not work with CoH2's retarded 'standard territory point' system vs. the original 'strategic point system'.

Remove Angoville from CoH2 - it doesn't work with these systems.

Same as Semois.

Angoville is the first map ever crafted for Company of Heroes, it is legendary, and doesn't deserve this.

Remove it from CoH2 and have done with it.


What is sad is that the map plays quite well with the coh1 style points, even without being attached to pop cap.

It KIND OF translates with "trusight".

I always wondered how feasible a mini tourney would be using maps using modified pseudo-coh1 style territory points. *coughsigcough*
20 Jun 2018, 03:54 AM
#9
avatar of ikab

Posts: 35

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 15:02 PMA_E
Angoville does not work as well with a true sight setting.

Angovile does not work with CoH2's retarded 'standard territory point' system vs. the original 'strategic point system'.

Remove Angoville from CoH2 - it doesn't work with these systems.

Same as Semois.

Angoville is the first map ever crafted for Company of Heroes, it is legendary, and doesn't deserve this.

Remove it from CoH2 and have done with it.


I agree. I remember loving vCOH angoville and looking forward to angoville games.

Getting angoville in COH 2 fills me with a sense of dread because I know the game I'm about to play is gonna be horrible.

The map definitely needs more than what I proposed to be playable, but removing some of the insane stone cutoff buildings would be a start to restoring this map to its former glory.

I remember langres had stone buildings in vCOH that were removed in COH 2. I know Langres is still a weird map balance wise but it is very fun to play on. Angoville could be the same if these buildings were removed. Stone buildings work in team games but they just lead to static campy gameplay in 1v1, probably the worst combat in the entire game. It's especially frustrating if you're playing one of the factions that doesn't get a non-doctrinal flamethrower because you end up having no way to clear the buildings.
20 Jun 2018, 04:41 AM
#10
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 885 | Subs: 2

Getting Angoville to be balanced would require drastic changes. Like:
- Remove stone wall above south base. Or mirror it on North.
- Remove/Reposition some buildings.
- The left VP is closer to South.
- South cutoff has a building on it.
- VPs should be repositioned across middle of the map.
- Better bunker placement in bases.
- North has to cross RED cover to exit base area.

The south spawn with MGs in city could get two VPs and the third VP is closer as well. South spawn favoured.



20 Jun 2018, 09:57 AM
#11
avatar of Imperial Dane
Caster Badge

Posts: 1549 | Subs: 8

Overall the issue with Angoville is that the East forms a box that can be dug into rather easily and be tricky to crack in a lot of circumstances. So any changes to this map would need to make this box less impervious. I'd probably suggest looking at the northern half of it, ie the building cluster and remove one or two there and add in some hedgerows so you can creep around better because right now it is pretty difficult which makes it easy to push out the northern player from the east.

Also a problem for the northern player, the northwestern cutoff is too easily harassed and locked down compared to the similar one in the south. Since the north one is close to the road and hedgerows, the southern one ? Nowhere that easily.

So i think overall what needs to be looked at are the western cutoffs and to an extent the eastern as well, making the southwestern one easier to harass, the northwestern one a bit trickier, and the southwestern one.. hmm, probably a bit harder to lock down from either side. I'd move the house or the point itself.
20 Jun 2018, 17:49 PM
#12
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 885 | Subs: 2

To get a feel for how the map would look if all of the needed changes were made, I modified Angoville. The map is available on STEAM as ROSBONEVILLE

CHANGES:
1. Moved several houses (YELLOW DOTS). The buildings are nearly mirrored now.
2. Added various sight blockers around right MUNI and barns. This was done to limit MG dominance.
3. Added a path from the Northwest to the middle house for flanking.
4. Moved the FUELS and VPS so they are distance balanced from both sides.
5. Removed EAST side cutoffs.
6. Mirrored WEST side cutoffs.
7. Changed south stone wall to fence with additional openings.




NOTES:
- There are additional sight blockers(not shown) by the NorthEast barn to limit MG dominance.
- Could use more sight blockers on middle dominance buildings so they do not dominate the bases.
20 Jun 2018, 19:23 PM
#13
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4821 | Subs: 14

Hey to everyone.
Angovill will stay in coh2. There is no option to discuss about removing it.
But rework is fine, hard but would be fine.

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jun 2018, 17:49 PMRosbone
To get a feel for how the map would look if all of the needed changes were made, I modified Angoville. The map is available on STEAM as ROSBONEVILLE



I will look next week in your new version Rosebone.
20 Jun 2018, 21:31 PM
#14
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 674 | Subs: 1

Overall the issue with Angoville is that the East forms a box that can be dug into rather easily and be tricky to crack in a lot of circumstances. So any changes to this map would need to make this box less impervious. I'd probably suggest looking at the northern half of it, ie the building cluster and remove one or two there and add in some hedgerows so you can creep around better because right now it is pretty difficult which makes it easy to push out the northern player from the east.

Also a problem for the northern player, the northwestern cutoff is too easily harassed and locked down compared to the similar one in the south. Since the north one is close to the road and hedgerows, the southern one ? Nowhere that easily.

So i think overall what needs to be looked at are the western cutoffs and to an extent the eastern as well, making the southwestern one easier to harass, the northwestern one a bit trickier, and the southwestern one.. hmm, probably a bit harder to lock down from either side. I'd move the house or the point itself.

+1
20 Jun 2018, 22:19 PM
#15
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

The only real problem with agnoville is elevation. And it used to be there in coh1 as well.

I've seen lots of great tournament games on this map, yet I believe people still have problems just to remember there are two sides of it. Meanwhile, we are talking here about some absolute details.
20 Jun 2018, 23:29 PM
#16
avatar of ikab

Posts: 35

The only real problem with agnoville is elevation. And it used to be there in coh1 as well.

I've seen lots of great tournament games on this map, yet I believe people still have problems just to remember there are two sides of it. Meanwhile, we are talking here about some absolute details.


I disagree.

I have never noticed elevation issues on this map in the same way I notice them on Poltawa or Langres. On Poltawa and langres elevation is so bad that it significantly affects projectile accuracy.
21 Jun 2018, 09:53 AM
#17
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1189 | Subs: 14

One of the most simple changes would be to put a hole in the fence next to the northern cut-off so you can get out of your base more easily.
21 Jun 2018, 19:08 PM
#18
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jun 2018, 23:29 PMikab


I disagree.

I have never noticed elevation issues on this map in the same way I notice them on Poltawa or Langres. On Poltawa and langres elevation is so bad that it significantly affects projectile accuracy.


Really? The only two 1v1 maps where I notice the elevation right now is agnoville and arnhem checkpoint. With agnoville being the worse one, as the huge hill by the western fuel is right in the middle of what looks like a plain field. AT guns and TDs just love to hit the ground there.

I also remember that old minsk had some elevation problems, with granades bugging out.

As for langres, I fail to even imagine where you found some elevation problem there.
22 Jun 2018, 17:44 PM
#19
avatar of Luciano

Posts: 691

angoville has elevation problems too, flatten them and the map should be improve, also the fence on the northern base like tightrope said, the south base wall, the bush walls, and robone pointed the red cover road outside the northern base
22 Jun 2018, 19:28 PM
#20
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4821 | Subs: 14

Starting at 56.30 in my stream:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/276290620

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