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13 Feb 2018, 18:02 PM
#141
avatar of elchino7
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Feb 2018, 09:12 AMVipper


You don't balance with absolutes in mind.

1- As long as those rules don't limit yourself in how you can balance a unit nor if the changes applied are on a small magnitude microwise.

2- Depends on what you consider a benchmark. And even then, that's flawed cause the game works assymetricaly wise. Ex: you can consider OH as a faction benchmark as whole, due to how it feels to play with and against, it's power level and cheese, but you can't really do so with any specific unit on it's roster.

3- That would be the case if Maxims function as proper HMG with no deathloop instead of been quasi main line infantry with suppression. Don't try to force a rule, for the sake of forcing something in order to make a point.

4- Community balance team used OH as a benchmark. See point 2. But if you could find me a source for that from Relic, specially for older changes that would be great.

5- Conscripts on their own wasn't such a huge of a change, more than the meta change and revamp of commander with PPSH.

6- Su76 is an anomalie right now, cause it was never properly looked at since 2013. It's been buffed in order to make people use it but they never removed the clutches such as free barrage or it's original xp value adjusted.
14 Feb 2018, 11:11 AM
#142
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


You don't balance with absolutes in mind.

1- As long as those rules don't limit yourself in how you can balance a unit nor if the changes applied are on a small magnitude microwise.

Nice to see we agree. Imo the latest patches tend to create individual solution for each unit without any good reason something that add complexity without actually helping balance, that imo is the wrong direction.


2- Depends on what you consider a benchmark. And even then, that's flawed cause the game works assymetricaly wise. Ex: you can consider OH as a faction benchmark as whole, due to how it feels to play with and against, it's power level and cheese, but you can't really do so with any specific unit on it's roster.

Benchmark is something you compare with. Asymmetry and benchmark do not cancel each out, one must simply take into account faction design.

Actually you can take each individual stock Ostheer unit and use it as benchmark keeping in-mind that certain units are UP or OP by design.


3- That would be the case if Maxims function as proper HMG with no deathloop instead of been quasi main line infantry with suppression. Don't try to force a rule, for the sake of forcing something in order to make a point.

That is actually a reason for the exact opposite. Part of the reason maxim spam works is that although the unit can be used as mainline infantry the player that uses them bleeds far less.

Death-loop


I am not trying to force a rule, I am simply arguing that there must logic behind decision like having HMg reinforcement cost.
One should either:

1) Take into the performance of crews and price should be equal and any difference should come from faction design (like Wer cost efficient support (S.W.), USF not cost efficient S.W.)
or
2) Take into account cost of unit and adjust reinforcement cost accordingly.

The current situation adds complexity for no-good reason.


4- Community balance team used OH as a benchmark. See point 2. But if you could find me a source for that from Relic, specially for older changes that would be great.

Not at liberty to say more on the subject. If I find a public reference I will let you know.


5- Conscripts on their own wasn't such a huge of a change, more than the meta change and revamp of commander with PPSH.

The changes in conscripts was not huge the impact was and that is exactly my point, changes should be smaller in patches.

Conscripts spam become more popular, probably because of the changes to call-in units that anything else.


6- Su76 is an anomalie right now, cause it was never properly looked at since 2013. It's been buffed in order to make people use it but they never removed the clutches such as free barrage or it's original xp value adjusted.

And this "anomalies" should be ironed out with or without scope. The scope should always include eliminating as many "anomalies" as possible.
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