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russian armor

Bad matchmaking?

13 Jan 2018, 10:54 AM
#1
avatar of jeremy

Posts: 17

Hi,
Am i the only one thinking the matchmaking has something wrong?

1/2 of my games are really bad balanced.
I don't know how the system works but maybe we should check this.
For example, if im 20 in 2v2, and i'm facing 2 top 100, the matchmaking give me as mate a 2 hours player? Really?!?
-I can understand this can happen sometimes, but everyone here is agree to statute we prefer not play than play with such a new player. I would rather wait for 10 min more than this.
-I also want to say the game lost many players in few years. Nowadays, a top 200-300 just can't deal with top 50. I regulary have a game like 2 top 50 vs 1 top 20 + 1 top 300. Maybe this is correct about stats/elo but we all noticed how unbalanced can be games like that. ( seriously, today, i can see top 200 ostheer starting with 2 mortars first! How is it supposed to deal with real top 50 players?)

So maybe we should fix the matchmaking as fast as possible or be sure all efforts done for motivating people with the new patch could be useless.

See you!
13 Jan 2018, 12:32 PM
#2
avatar of luvnest
Strategist Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1039 | Subs: 21

You can have the best matchmaking algorithms in the world but without a sufficient pool of players to choose from it won't work the way it is supposed to work.

Also, placement matches pretty much mean you can get matched with anybody until you are ranked.
13 Jan 2018, 13:39 PM
#3
avatar of jeremy

Posts: 17

Yes, i agree.
First, i'm obviously not talking about placement match. Random in this case is clear for placing you in ladder. You need to face a large sample of players.

Second, there is a lack of players, indeed. That's why to my mind there is less and less decent players as well. So maybe an update could be usefull. ( like more promote longer research time to drop with same levels than match with unbalanced stats and waste your time as well for 10 min, for example).

I believe the ratio skill and rank isnt linear after like top 200. But if the matchmaking is still considering a top 500 as decent player, and drop with top 100 players, then it's instant BG after 5 min for 95% of cases.
13 Jan 2018, 18:20 PM
#4
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2510

You are talking about a placement match. A player with 2 hours of gameplay must be playing his placement match.

Also, the match maker doesn't use your ladder placement but your elo, which is a hidden number used to sort the ladder.

And finally, yes, there is no linear or any other functional relation between skill and ladder placement just becouse the only relation is sorting.
13 Jan 2018, 21:11 PM
#5
avatar of GiaA

Posts: 297

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 13:39 PMjeremy
Yes, i agree.
First, i'm obviously not talking about placement match. Random in this case is clear for placing you in ladder. You need to face a large sample of players.

Second, there is a lack of players, indeed. That's why to my mind there is less and less decent players as well. So maybe an update could be usefull. ( like more promote longer research time to drop with same levels than match with unbalanced stats and waste your time as well for 10 min, for example).

I believe the ratio skill and rank isnt linear after like top 200. But if the matchmaking is still considering a top 500 as decent player, and drop with top 100 players, then it's instant BG after 5 min for 95% of cases.


restart the queue regularly to avoid noobs
14 Jan 2018, 00:18 AM
#6
avatar of Array
Donator 11

Posts: 531

I’m 500-1000 and play a lot of 2v2 randoms. Nearly every game I get a team mate very equal in skill to me to the point that scores are often within a few hundred of each other. Sometimes there’s more discrepancy but it’s rarely terrible. Perhaps this is due to the rank zone I am in
14 Jan 2018, 09:10 AM
#7
avatar of jeremy

Posts: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 21:11 PMGiaA


restart the queue regularly to avoid noobs


Yes, i have noticed the research is extended to larger sample of player if i didnt match after few minutes. You are right, i will do it now.

Array, im just saying there is a huge hole of skill between a top 100 and a top 300. But unfortunatly, i regulary match with top 200 300 400 because their elo is correct compared to a top 100 but the skill is really not here.

I don't know how to explain it. And i have only few ideas but no solutions. However, if today, you are top 50 and you match with top 300 in order to balance the game with 2 top 100 in front. I promess it's instant lose for you.

Anyway, i believe you all answered my question. There is not enough players and i have to restart research after few minutes. TY




14 Jan 2018, 09:29 AM
#8
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 794

Are you having problems with lower ranked players on your team or against you?
14 Jan 2018, 09:43 AM
#9
avatar of d0ggY

Posts: 495 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2018, 09:10 AMjeremy


Yes, i have noticed the research is extended to larger sample of player if i didnt match after few minutes. You are right, i will do it now.

Array, im just saying there is a huge hole of skill between a top 100 and a top 300. But unfortunatly, i regulary match with top 200 300 400 because their elo is correct compared to a top 100 but the skill is really not here.

I don't know how to explain it. And i have only few ideas but no solutions. However, if today, you are top 50 and you match with top 300 in order to balance the game with 2 top 100 in front. I promess it's instant lose for you.

Anyway, i believe you all answered my question. There is not enough players and i have to restart research after few minutes. TY







Yeah, for example i played this guy "Ding Ding!" and he is really suuuuuuuch a bad scrub Kappa (JK!!!)

but yeah matchmaking sometimes is really boring, and then you get to play "unnecessary" games that are just plain dumb. As an AT this sucks very much, in randoms, there it can be cases of you get matched with top 10 team and get yourself a 1k random and need to try to carry him, and most likely t hey tell you you suck then Kappa
14 Jan 2018, 19:36 PM
#10
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 73

I never play 2v2 because of that problem.
You can play the best in the world and still lose, cause your teammate is bad.
15 Jan 2018, 08:38 AM
#11
avatar of Siphon X.
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 853 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2018, 21:11 PMGiaA


restart the queue regularly to avoid noobs


I did this as well (only the other way around as I am a noob); however, even after requeuing every minute or so, I got matched with a muuuch better player. So, seems like you can't avoid these mismatches completely...

While matchmaking is tricky for 1v1 already, for teamgames it gets even worse. In a perfect world you would be able to find 4 players with similar ELOs and match those. However, that's obviously more tricky than to find 2 (granted, there is a larger playerbase in teamgames, so the problems might not be that much worse).

If that fails, apparently it will try to match a better and a worse player against two mediocre players. Now, how much better and worse the first two can be in order to create an even match would be incredibly hard to determine. And then we have the problem of AT versus randoms. Are the ELOs comparable and if not, how large is the advantage for the the AT?
15 Jan 2018, 11:40 AM
#12
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 1886

Was USF top 20/30 and been matched with a Sov top 1800 in less than a minute vs two Axis top 100.
Can tell you if you are not using CELO the surprise you get when you finally check your mate stat after the match...
16 Jan 2018, 08:49 AM
#13
avatar of jeremy

Posts: 17

Are you having problems with lower ranked players on your team or against you?


How the hell am i supposed to understand this question?^^
Obviously, i'm talking about global bad matchmaking, regardless my team or ennemies' team.



If that fails, apparently it will try to match a better and a worse player against two mediocre players. Now, how much better and worse the first two can be in order to create an even match would be incredibly hard to determine. And then we have the problem of AT versus randoms. Are the ELOs comparable and if not, how large is the advantage for the the AT?


I totally agree with you about how hard it is possible to adjust the research system about cases your mentionned.
However, I just tried yesterday to restart every minute the research. At the third try, i matched in 30 sec with a top 200 vs a top 500 and 600. Guess what happened? So as luvnest said, there isnt a large pool of player but; how is it possible to find players so quickly for such an unbalanced match? I believe we would rather wait for 5 min more than play this kind of game.






16 Jan 2018, 12:28 PM
#14
avatar of Siphon X.
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 853 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jan 2018, 08:49 AMjeremy


However, I just tried yesterday to restart every minute the research. At the third try, i matched in 30 sec with a top 200 vs a top 500 and 600. Guess what happened? So as luvnest said, there isnt a large pool of player but; how is it possible to find players so quickly for such an unbalanced match?



Yes, as I mentioned that happened to me as well, even though I used to requeue very frequently. I guess the way it works is that the high ranking player in this case waited for a while already, so that his search radius covered your ELO (even though your search radius did not cover his, yet).

If that is how this works out, requeueing only reduces the chances of a mismatch, but it won't eliminate them.
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