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russian armor

Katyushas

25 May 2017, 18:25 PM
#21
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Can anyone remember the patch that gave katyuscha like 5 times more damage? good times...


"We wanted to make Katyushas more relevant in the late game while also provinding the Soviet faction with a reliable non doctrinal artillery unit".

:foreveralone:
25 May 2017, 21:53 PM
#22
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440

is it most balanced indirect fire we talking here Kappa
25 May 2017, 22:44 PM
#23
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

please don't do this. The katyusha is balanced, it's one of the few units that most people can agree on XD
26 May 2017, 02:37 AM
#24
avatar of DAZ187

Posts: 465

lol i have seen it all. Katty is fine. you have to get up close for it to get some wipes
26 May 2017, 09:50 AM
#25
avatar of mediev

Posts: 93

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 02:37 AMDAZ187
lol i have seen it all. Katty is fine. you have to get up close for it to get some wipes


Exactly, and unlike a Calliope, you actually take a huge risk by bringing it up close, as it dies in a single shot. That is how it should work with rocket arty. Either make them have paper armor and good accuracy, or better armor and terrible accuracy.
26 May 2017, 13:18 PM
#26
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 09:50 AMmediev


Exactly, and unlike a Calliope, you actually take a huge risk by bringing it up close, as it dies in a single shot. That is how it should work with rocket arty. Either make them have paper armor and good accuracy, or better armor and terrible accuracy.

That was the LM. No armor, no accuracy :) payload is a factor as well. Katty is balanced
26 May 2017, 14:16 PM
#27
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 09:50 AMmediev


Exactly, and unlike a Calliope, you actually take a huge risk by bringing it up close, as it dies in a single shot. That is how it should work with rocket arty. Either make them have paper armor and good accuracy, or better armor and terrible accuracy.

Or the same accuracy at all ranges and 2x the survivability if you're the walking stuka because okw kappa
26 May 2017, 20:42 PM
#28
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728

jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2017, 16:26 PMmediev


USF AT gun is crap? I mean, just get out of here. Zooks are kinda meh, but considering you can get them on REs together with a sweeper, they are not that bad. Calliope is still not working properly. Its scatter should be increased to the level of the land matress to compensate for the fact that mostly, you can just bring it right up and nuke a squad without much risk or skill involved. Weakening it would just look retarded(it is based on a Sherman chassis after all, so it should be able to take a shot).
Panzerwerfer needs some serious redesign considering its scatter over distance. Like someone said already, Katty is the gold standard for rocket arty and an prime example of how it should work on the field.
Calliope should have never been added into the game in my opinion. It is one of those units allowing low skill players to annoy others with almost 0 micro involved, similar to stuff like old Maxims or emplacements. At least the LMG nerf made sure that not many people pick this doctrine anymore, thank God!


Lol aparently you dont play much usf because the at gun is still pretty un reliable but much better using the money rounds than what it was before was worthless. You are also missing the point usf does not have the defensive tools to get by with out making armor and going straight to callie even just one, whats laughable is that intelligence thinks you can make two and rely only on zooks and the at gun.
26 May 2017, 21:00 PM
#29
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Well, yeah you may not be able to rely solely on zooks and atgs, but with some kind of armored support against a player without similar combined arms it's quite effective.

But USF defense is a strong offense more often than not.
26 May 2017, 21:05 PM
#30
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728

jump backJump back to quoted post25 May 2017, 16:26 PMmediev


USF AT gun is crap? I mean, just get out of here. Zooks are kinda meh, but considering you can get them on REs together with a sweeper, they are not that bad. Calliope is still not working properly. Its scatter should be increased to the level of the land matress to compensate for the fact that mostly, you can just bring it right up and nuke a squad without much risk or skill involved. Weakening it would just look retarded(it is based on a Sherman chassis after all, so it should be able to take a shot).
Panzerwerfer needs some serious redesign considering its scatter over distance. Like someone said already, Katty is the gold standard for rocket arty and an prime example of how it should work on the field.
Calliope should have never been added into the game in my opinion. It is one of those units allowing low skill players to annoy others with almost 0 micro involved, similar to stuff like old Maxims or emplacements. At least the LMG nerf made sure that not many people pick this doctrine anymore, thank God!



Also werfer is fine it impacts very quickly and has good squad wipe potential id be happy to post some replays. Also available no matter what doct you chose. The trick to it is if you get caught in a barrage your actually better staying still than moving or imdediately retreating if you didny immediate retreat at the very first sound which is softer than all other rocket arty and is the hardest to hear in late game scenarios when a lot of other shit is making loud noises. Lol calliope is doct and yes usf should have rocket arty too that they actually have to pick a doctrine to get. Genius. Yes it takes so much more skill to use werfer? You click two buttons or hotkeys.
26 May 2017, 21:25 PM
#31
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728



Why you only see panzerwerfer in 3s and 4s not 1s or 2s. Now it's almost guaranteed you'll see calliope landmattress and katusha in every game 2s and up


Only thing that breaks okw sim city and vet 4 and 5 infantry that allied infantry cant fight
26 May 2017, 21:40 PM
#32
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 21:25 PMRocket


Only thing that breaks okw sim city and vet 4 and 5 infantry that allied infantry cant fight


The argument is mostly vs panzerwerfer aka OH
26 May 2017, 21:54 PM
#33
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728



The argument is mostly vs panzerwerfer aka OH


Lol im not sure what is then a topic of what most sane people agree is the most balanced rocket arty until some how now the werfer needs buffed??
26 May 2017, 22:21 PM
#34
avatar of mediev

Posts: 93

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 20:42 PMRocket


Lol aparently you dont play much usf because the at gun is still pretty un reliable but much better using the money rounds than what it was before was worthless. You are also missing the point usf does not have the defensive tools to get by with out making armor and going straight to callie even just one, whats laughable is that intelligence thinks you can make two and rely only on zooks and the at gun.


USF is my most played faction. The AT gun is pretty good. It has a very wide arc, which makes it a nightmare to dodge it. It has high rate of fire and accuracy. If you activate the AP rounds, it has pretty decent pen as well. Even without it though, it will pen P4s like 90% of the time. It cost less. It has the Take Aim! ability, which increased its range. It is not remotely as bad as the Raketen, at least it works properly. In my experience, it usually works better than a Jackson.
26 May 2017, 22:35 PM
#35
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 22:21 PMmediev


USF is my most played faction. The AT gun is pretty good. It has a very wide arc, which makes it a nightmare to dodge it. It has high rate of fire and accuracy. If you activate the AP rounds, it has pretty decent pen as well. Even without it though, it will pen P4s like 90% of the time. It cost less. It has the Take Aim! ability, which increased its range. It is not remotely as bad as the Raketen, at least it works properly. In my experience, it usually works better than a Jackson.

Wow a dedicated, crew serviced at gun can penetrate a panzer four 9 out of 10 times. I'm pretty sure it's got pretty much the same performance as all the other at guns. There's still that stupid bug where it goes crawlspeed in craters though. I find that the raketens only problem is the longass aim time. The other stuff performs pretty much fine now that it doesn't always shoot straight into the ground anymore. I mean, it gets camo and better penetration out of camo with vet, and insane attack speed with vet. It can retreat too.
26 May 2017, 22:57 PM
#36
avatar of mediev

Posts: 93


Wow a dedicated, crew serviced at gun can penetrate a panzer four 9 out of 10 times. I'm pretty sure it's got pretty much the same performance as all the other at guns. There's still that stupid bug where it goes crawlspeed in craters though. I find that the raketens only problem is the longass aim time. The other stuff performs pretty much fine now that it doesn't always shoot straight into the ground anymore. I mean, it gets camo and better penetration out of camo with vet, and insane attack speed with vet. It can retreat too.


It also gets one-shotted like 50% of the time by tanks. It is really weird unit. It´s gunshield gives no cover whatsoever, so the crew is completely exposed. It is pretty much safe from infantry because it can retreat, but tanks often act as a hard-counter to it, which is really ironic. I mean, if I am driving a Sherman or a T-34, I am not really afraid of a Raketen, because I know that I can wipe it from the front no problem. And like I said, the USF AT gun has a decent pen. Just because you have to press a button doesn´t mean it isn´t there. It´s arch, RoF, cost, Take Aim and accuracy make up for it quite nicely I think.
26 May 2017, 23:11 PM
#37
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 22:57 PMmediev


It also gets one-shotted like 50% of the time by tanks. It is really weird unit. It´s gunshield gives no cover whatsoever, so the crew is completely exposed. It is pretty much safe from infantry because it can retreat, but tanks often act as a hard-counter to it, which is really ironic. I mean, if I am driving a Sherman or a T-34, I am not really afraid of a Raketen, because I know that I can wipe it from the front no problem. And like I said, the USF AT gun has a decent pen. Just because you have to press a button doesn´t mean it isn´t there. It´s arch, RoF, cost, Take Aim and accuracy make up for it quite nicely I think.

The tendency to get 2 shotted (2 guys get 1 shotted, the other two go and get 1 shotted) or 1 shotted if clumped (which can be avoided) by tanks is definitely a problem and should be addressed.

What I meant about the USF AT gun is that you were kinda making it sound like some sort of exceptional wunderwaffe, but it is pretty much just a normal old AT gun.
26 May 2017, 23:15 PM
#38
avatar of mediev

Posts: 93


The tendency to get 2 shotted (2 guys get 1 shotted, the other two go and get 1 shotted) or 1 shotted if clumped (which can be avoided) by tanks is definitely a problem and should be addressed.

What I meant about the USF AT gun is that you were kinda making it sound like some sort of exceptional wunderwaffe, but it is pretty much just a normal old AT gun.


Exactly, what I didn´t agree with was calling it crappy. It is about average in the late game, and it is EXCELLENT in the early and mid game, because its wider arc and fast aim time are able to catch light vehicles better. And as for the Raketen veterancy, it is EXTREMELY rare to see a Raketen reach vet 3 or more. Usually, it gets wiped before that, even in high-level play.
26 May 2017, 23:48 PM
#39
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post26 May 2017, 23:15 PMmediev


Exactly, what I didn´t agree with was calling it crappy. It is about average in the late game, and it is EXCELLENT in the early and mid game, because its wider arc and fast aim time are able to catch light vehicles better. And as for the Raketen veterancy, it is EXTREMELY rare to see a Raketen reach vet 3 or more. Usually, it gets wiped before that, even in high-level play.

Yeah. I got one once actually, and it was OP as hell lol. I think it just got randomly wiped by a katyusha tho.
28 May 2017, 01:22 AM
#40
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 309 | Subs: 1

Thanks for the constructive (and sometimes not so constructive) feedback. The point is (at least in 2v2s) that Katyusha spam is the method of choice and I am talking about top100-top50 teams relying on that. I understand that Katy is effective on close range, because of risk-reward, but even on long range it is more than just formidable.

The problems I see are the following: as Soviet you always go T4 anyways (unless you spam M4Cs ofc), so you dont have to "detour" like with Ost or OKW, or to go for a certain doc like with Brits and USF. Furthermore, you can effectively use long range barrages (especially in comparison with the Pwerfer), since every rocket has the potential to wipe/do massive dmg. So often you can kill retreating units or units you didnt even know that were there with the scatter. Plus, they are super effective to easily get rid of any OKW truck from a safe distance, especially when paired with 120mm. Thats what you see every game in 2v2s. Penals, 120mm, Katyushas and T34/SU86 accordingly.
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