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UKF Snares - How to balance?

14 Jan 2017, 09:25 AM
#1
avatar of Latch

Posts: 404

EDIT: There should be a ? in the title, I forgot to add it and now it sounds like a statement :P

Relic made it clear that a lack of snare, or should I say, an expensive snare that comes at around 2 min, is a weakness to a faction. To alter relics own words and place them into a UKF perspective:


UKF are the only faction in the game to have no snares. This made them too vulnerable to vehicles, especially when compounded with their other inferior anti-tank options. The lack of unlocking snares compared to all other factions made them helpless versus early light vehicles such as the 222, Kubel, Halftrack and Luchs. This, additionally made the prospect of going for a bofors less viable.

The glaring difference here however is that UKF will now have access to homing PIATS, before the above rang true far more than it does now, but that doesn't mean a lack of a snare isn't a problem. So at risk of making a Tommie squad a 1 team AT and AA squad, how do you balance them out?

The way I see it is through several steps as follows:

#1: Unlocking grenades also unlocks the snare

This on its own however will result in the 1 man do everything squad if you then equip them with 1 bren and 1 PIAT, expensive, but without any vehicle/bofors side tech, doable, so how do you stop that?

#2(a): Unlocking the grenades unlocks the snare to be side teched instead of healing/pyrotechnics

Every faction needs healing and it's arguably slightly advantageous that Tommies can heal so easily out in the field (I wont say OP or the likes as other units do this too with vet). Locking out healing and unlocking snares will force the players into having at least 1 squad that can't snare with the majority being unable to stay out in the field fighting for a long time.

The only problem I see with this is that you will then no longer see pyrotechnics on Tommies, that is, unless like now where someone clicks on it by mistake... So my other suggestion is...

#2(b): Teching pyro gives snares (if nades are teched) but removes the sight increase that you currently gain.

This way we still get to see a firework show every now and again and the pyro side tech doesn't go unloved.

Lastly, we have a combination of both the above (either 2a or 2b) but with PIATS restricted to sappers only. This one is cheeky though as I never put PIATS on my Tommies so that doesn't affect me, but with the ability to snare, have a reduction in AI to grant a homing AT weapon AND a snare on my Tommies? That might change the way I look at that situation.

By teching nades to unlock (the change to again unlock) the snare you chose to delay weapon racks and with the muni sink that can go into snaring, even if racks are unlocked, limit the amount you can field. Going both weapon racks AND nades will near enough halt light vehicle play and result in a more passive approach to fighting early on. Kind of like... How UKF were supposed to be designed?

Those are just my 2 cents, they might sound good to me on paper but once tested might prove to make UKF Tommies too strong, who knows? That's why I created this post, to get opinions and find a perfect solution that might one day, just one day, see UKF with a snare.
14 Jan 2017, 10:14 AM
#2
avatar of karskimies

Posts: 67

There is a doctrine with bad tommies with snare(bugged one? :D). Better pick that if you have problem versus light vehicles which get dunked by small arms fire.
14 Jan 2017, 12:09 PM
#3
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

Why do they need a snare when they get the fastest vehicles (light and medium) in the game (maybe not the 222).

Plus they dont have to worry about crush.
14 Jan 2017, 12:24 PM
#4
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2699 | Subs: 2

The Boys AT IS have a snare, but it's doctrinal and not always available.

But hey, maybe with the PIAT buff it will be more effective against light vehicles now? For me the problem always was dealing with early light vehicles.
14 Jan 2017, 12:30 PM
#5
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 855

Every faction dont need have all, what others have. Brits dont need snare.
14 Jan 2017, 12:42 PM
#6
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

If you want to make british snare ballanced, put it on doctrinal unit.


Oh wait :megusta:
14 Jan 2017, 14:02 PM
#7
avatar of Latch

Posts: 404

There is a doctrine with bad tommies with snare(bugged one? :D). Better pick that if you have problem versus light vehicles which get dunked by small arms fire.


Luchs can die to small arms fire? 222 Is about the only one that can (kuble too) and it's not very efficient

Why do they need a snare when they get the fastest vehicles (light and medium) in the game (maybe not the 222).

Plus they dont have to worry about crush.


They get the fastest Vehicles? They only get vehicles if they tech for it, even then fastest? If that's true it's hardly by far and with how average the AEC does Vs vehicles it's hardly a threat (When both axis have fausts)

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2017, 12:30 PMAradan
Every faction dont need have all, what others have. Brits dont need snare.


Yet OKW got the machine gun made non doctrinal?

14 Jan 2017, 14:04 PM
#8
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 855

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2017, 14:02 PMLatch

Yet OKW got the machine gun made non doctrinal?


And medium tank (PzIVj) ;)

But realy Brits dont need snare. Mines and AT gun is enough.
14 Jan 2017, 14:11 PM
#9
avatar of Polar Lights

Posts: 20

Because allies are the light vech terrors of the game :x

Hey, they do have a snare. A mine...

UKF anti tank gun can sprint which sort of makes up for not being able to snare.

Early lights like the kubel/halftrack/222 get mauled by a vickers as they have piss poor armor.

UKF seems fine as is.
14 Jan 2017, 15:31 PM
#10
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 674 | Subs: 1

Yeah, there is a problem, because a Luchs has an easy time, taking first two shots of the AT gun like a man and then circling it to the death. But since only one piat should now be able to solve this, they really dont need a snare.

In fact, the lack of a snare may sometimes even make the opponent get cocky and rush into an AT guns battery which they would otherwise avoid.
14 Jan 2017, 17:18 PM
#11
avatar of Cultist_kun

Posts: 295 | Subs: 1

The Boys AT IS have a snare, but it's doctrinal and not always available.

But hey, maybe with the PIAT buff it will be more effective against light vehicles now? For me the problem always was dealing with early light vehicles.


More of that its not working properly. Sometimes it can break eng, sometimes it cant.
14 Jan 2017, 21:24 PM
#12
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1333

Give UKF a snare already, Latch is right. I don't know how to balance it but they should get one.
If giving them a snare is to OP then make the teching and their tanks cost more so everyone is happy.
When there is a will, there is a way.
Core things like snares should have every faction, just like mines for example (USF anyone? Not counting the doctrinal ones).

And for the people that say that you can get a AEC, yes we can get one or better we HAVE to get one. What if I don't want to get one on EVERY SINGLE UKF GAME? Brits don't have that option, 99% of the time a Luchs or double 222s will come after you and you say we have to rely on mines and hope that they trip them?
Mines can't be everywhere on the map.
So give Brits a snare already.

Most people (Top players and competitive players) are saying that asymmetrical balance is messing up the balance and in the past 3 years Relic and the community are trying to fix that (OKW getting an overhaul and a SNARE and USF getting a freaking mortar) but now with Brits its a nogo???

Oh, but wait. Giving Penals PTRS rifles is more important (SU, the most versatile faction in the game surely needed that) but Brits not having a snare is OK!

14 Jan 2017, 21:56 PM
#13
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2017, 14:02 PMLatch


They get the fastest Vehicles? They only get vehicles if they tech for it, even then fastest? If that's true it's hardly by far and with how average the AEC does Vs vehicles it's hardly a threat (When both axis have fausts



They only get vehicles if they tech for it? What do you think axis have to do to get vehicles?

AEC average vs vehicles? It beats any light vehicle other than the puma, and if there is a puma, there is no threat to infintry.

And you do know the AEC can just sit outside of Faust range and bleed models right?

If Brits were to get snare on infintry sections, there would need to be massive nerfs to them and the faction. Remember what it took to give OKW snares?
14 Jan 2017, 22:01 PM
#14
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1173 | Subs: 3

It's been a while so someone please inform me if the game has changed, but what happened to the .55 sniper? AKA the longest range/most surprising snare in the game?
15 Jan 2017, 06:07 AM
#15
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2679

It's been a while so someone please inform me if the game has changed, but what happened to the .55 sniper? AKA the longest range/most surprising snare in the game?

That + at gun is how I deal with lights. Thing is, that's almost 800mp for a squishy luchs counter lol. Also the ability is locked behind vet1. Not saying tommies need a snare, I don't know how I feel about that.
15 Jan 2017, 08:25 AM
#16
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 855

Problem would be:

251 Flak Half Track

We’ve found that the 251 Half-Track was under-performing in its role as an anti-infantry unit due to its immobility and vulnerability to vehicle rushes, lack of infantry support, and inability to counter some of OKW’s primary threats such as MG lockdown. Given the early arrival potential arrival of the flakHT, we are increasing its build-time to prevent it from being rushed to cut an opponent off their resources, before it can be countered.

Garrison Damage Multiplier increased from 0.25 to 0.35
Garrison Accuracy Multiplier increased from 0.4 to 0.5
Defensive Smoke no longer requires vet 1
Defensive Smoke munitions cost increased from 0 to 25
Vet 1 now reduces cost of Defensive Smoke from 25 to 10
Penetration increased from 20 to 30
Minimum Range Removed


Smoke no more requires vet 1 = free escape versus Brits

AEC after AI massive nerf in WBP
Angle scatter reduced from 7.5 to 6
Max scatter increased from 1.7 to 6.5
Main gun AoE reduced from 1/0.25/0.1 to 0.33/0.15/0.05
Machine gun accuracy reduced from 0.7/0.6/0.46 to 0.48/0.47/0.46
MG incremental accuracy reduced from 1.04 to 1
Medium crush replaced with light crush


is viable no more. 90 fuel for risky light AT ? Rush for Cromwell is much more surer way in team games.

In 1v1 I suppose Flak Half Track on cut off point and GG.

PS: sniper versus Flak Half Track? Sucide mission.
15 Jan 2017, 08:48 AM
#17
avatar of JackDickolson

Posts: 181

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2017, 08:25 AMAradan


In 1v1 I suppose Flak Half Track on cut off point and GG.

PS: sniper versus Flak Half Track? Sucide mission.
You are always welcome to build the best anti tank gun in game , if you feel the AEC is not good enough. And don't tell me your 6pounder gets circle strafed by the flak halftrack.


UKF doesn't need snare since they can blob piats harder now. But giving them snare would have been preferred, instead of introducing and promoting a new kind of 'superbazooka' blobbing meta.
15 Jan 2017, 09:34 AM
#18
avatar of Latch

Posts: 404



They only get vehicles if they tech for it? What do you think axis have to do to get vehicles?

AEC average vs vehicles? It beats any light vehicle other than the puma, and if there is a puma, there is no threat to infintry.

And you do know the AEC can just sit outside of Faust range and bleed models right?

If Brits were to get snare on infintry sections, there would need to be massive nerfs to them and the faction. Remember what it took to give OKW snares?


Axis dont have to side tech thats the difference, build AEC lock out bofors the whole game, go mech or skip T2 as ost, build it whenever you want, THATS the difference.

That was a typo, I meant average against infantry.

Every other AI light vehicle can kite models so a snare is innefective, whats your point? At least you have the option to punish.

To give OKW snares they removed the shreck upgrade, you then got 2x STG's with no side tech AND a faust. They can still get Shrecks on engies, what did I propose you do in my idea? Did you even read it?

Volks had shrecks at a time when this was also a thing BTW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9YhLp01iE

You are always welcome to build the best anti tank gun in game , if you feel the AEC is not good enough. And don't tell me your 6pounder gets circle strafed by the flak halftrack.

UKF doesn't need snare since they can blob piats harder now. But giving them snare would have been preferred, instead of introducing and promoting a new kind of 'superbazooka' blobbing meta.


PAK is still better than the 6pdr simply due to TWP. They do need a snare, TBH I'd be happy if they just reverted the snipers vet 1 back so it gets a snare. I have absolutely no idea why they placed this change on it, by the time you can get a sniper the 222 is out vs OST so you can't or at least struggle to vet it up for the ability. Against OKW its easier but the window is again, really short.

PIATS will make it easier for sure, will it remove the need for a snare? I doubt it, how do you punish something that overextends into late game other than a lucky mine?
15 Jan 2017, 09:39 AM
#19
avatar of Latch

Posts: 404

It's been a while so someone please inform me if the game has changed, but what happened to the .55 sniper? AKA the longest range/most surprising snare in the game?


The snipers ability was moved to vet 1 snare also does't snare tanks, only light vehicles, granted turret lock is nice but a snare is much better/useful.
15 Jan 2017, 10:07 AM
#20
avatar of JackDickolson

Posts: 181

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2017, 09:34 AMLatch

PAK is still better than the 6pdr simply due to TWP. They do need a snare, TBH I'd be happy if they just reverted the snipers vet 1 back so it gets a snare. I have absolutely no idea why they placed this change on it, by the time you can get a sniper the 222 is out vs OST so you can't or at least struggle to vet it up for the ability. Against OKW its easier but the window is again, really short.

PIATS will make it easier for sure, will it remove the need for a snare? I doubt it, how do you punish something that overextends into late game other than a lucky mine?
6Pounder has better pen and mobility, both factors being critical. The snare was removed from the sniper as causing engine crit from such a long range seemed stupid to developers.

In the end we have to make a choice, either the new piats or snares. I prefer the latter, as we have had enough of this hand-held AT blobbing nonsense for the past 3 years.
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