New Community Map Feedback Thread

I am still looking for some good ideas to improve Halbe. As I mentioned before, it was never supposed to be a conventional map, exspecially not for ranked games.
So I fully understand why several people don´t like it.

But the highway will remain the main feature of the map. Which doesn´t mean I can´t improve a few things. Here is the current plan. I am planning to create some safe passages, where you can cross the Autobahn without cover penalties, exspecially near the VPs and fuel points. And what do you think about additional cover on the highway?

There are three easy avenues you can take:

First you can simply remove the red cover. Open terrain is particularly lethal to begin with. You could also simply opt to keep the red cover to the cap zones.

Secondly you can add objects to the road breaking up the empty sections of road. Craters accomplish this well, but map_object wrecks and light cover objects like crates and sandbag piles cause minimal pathing issues and could be used as well.

And lastly you could add rows of shrubs, trees, fences, walls, etc in between the roads. There is an extensive amount of space in between actual roadways that is not road. You could get away with a couple strips of sight blocking walls/hedges or cover-giving fences/shrubs. (Many real roads, including the actual Autobahn feature this often.) Even the evidence of destroyed structure and brush would go a long way visually to help break up the amount of red cover. (I personally try to visually designate the borders of red cover. Last few maps I've used the dead animal objects and gib splats to create a visual cue to players as to where the red cover begins.)

You could even create a sort of 0.49 deep drainage ditch along the edges of the road with yellow terrain cover (like craters). Or even go all out and make actual, vaultable trenches along the roadsides at a few points.

It also occurred to me that you could even get away with making an actual, physical Z-level hill in the middle of the road.

Yeah it would block shots and such, but at the same time the road goes down the middle and would be a very clear and obvious division on the map. You could relegate that hill 'wall' to the edges of the map, put it in the middle, or whatever you'd like, but it's something to think about.

The limitation that we have with the Z axis doesn't mean we have to avoid using it. We can still try to be innovative.

It also occurred to me that you could even get away with making an actual, physical Z-level hill in the middle of the road.

Yeah it would block shots and such, but at the same time the road goes down the middle and would be a very clear and obvious division on the map. You could relegate that hill 'wall' to the edges of the map, put it in the middle, or whatever you'd like, but it's something to think about.

The limitation that we have with the Z axis doesn't mean we have to avoid using it. We can still try to be innovative.

Such a "natural wall" by adding a hill to enforce the gameplay is often criticised by players.
I had such a "wall" at Westwall to divided the central map area into two sections and to allow tanks to retreat behind the wall. But it seems to me that this "natural shoot blockers" were often criticised.
So i guess when Beagle would add a hill between his two road sides a lot of player wont like it because of the shoot blocking effect

Pathing ? Do you think about pathing at Market map .
Road are big at map, so its can be, but need wait to see new version. Now light vehicles play in the map are too good.

English ? Do you think about english at responding

I like how you have to respond with negativity, when you know next to nothing about the process of the limitations of map making, and have to drag another map in that is completely irrelevant.

Such a "natural wall" by adding a hill to enforce the gameplay is often criticised by players.
I had such a "wall" at Westwall to divided the central map area into two sections and to allow tanks to retreat behind the wall. But it seems to me that this "natural shoot blockers" were often criticised.
So i guess when Beagle would add a hill between his two road sides a lot of player wont like it because of the shoot blocking effect

True, so it might be only worthwhile on the far edges of the roads, if at all.

But also keep in mind Westwall does not have anything in it close to the middle road that Halbe has. Westwall doesn't have such an obvious visual line down the middle like Halbe which is why I suggested it as a possibility.

I know most criticism of hills draws from how impossible they are to discern visually, as in most cases the map did not account for how the game handles Z levels. That and raketenwerfers existing.

But the point is is that it could actually work for Halbe, given its specific design.

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True, so it might be only worthwhile on the far edges of the roads, if at all.

But also keep in mind Westwall does not have anything in it close to the middle road that Halbe has. Westwall doesn't have such an obvious visual line down the middle like Halbe which is why I suggested it as a possibility.

I know most criticism of hills draws from how impossible they are to discern visually, as in most cases the map did not account for how the game handles Z levels. That and raketenwerfers existing.

But the point is is that it could actually work for Halbe, given its specific design.

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You could also run ditches, to provide cover along the edges, so the craters arent so big, since the ditch/trench spline also provides cover.

You could also run ditches, to provide cover along the edges, so the craters arent so big, since the ditch/trench spline also provides cover.

Totally.

I have a map that utilizes the drainage ditches using those splines. I suggested it as an option for his map, but the more I talk about it the less I think it'll work for Halbe. I dunno though.

The problem with the ditch splines is that infantry entities do not prioritize for terrain cover. It's hard to make a long narrow trench that's fully passable that infantry will actually 'use' rather than just 'happen to be on' due to open terrain squad formations. I've been trying to make roadside ditches work on my own map and it's just not been panning out as well as I'd hoped. Especially when functionally all I'm doing is making a clunkier row of bushes.

(I mean, the cover is there and will always be there but infantry won't really care to use it without extensive micromanagement.)

A couple strips of vaultable trenches are probably better, despite all their implications.

(IMO tanks, but not vehicles, should be able to drive over vaultable trenches as well as garrison trenches. But that's just silly ol' me. ...And an entirely different conversation. )

Totally.

I have a map that utilizes the drainage ditches using those splines. I suggested it as an option for his map, but the more I talk about it the less I think it'll work for Halbe. I dunno though.

)

I agree with this, but he could use it creatively to make the "safe passage areas" on the highway.

I have an idea, but the only way i could explain it would to be do it myself and send screens, so tomorrow before I start up my stream I'll make an example of what im thinking about.

@beagletank, what spline are you using for the road itself so I can see if it works visually?

@beagletank, what spline are you using for the road itself so I can see if it works visually?

bia_road2_crack

English ? Do you think about english at responding

I like how you have to respond with negativity, when you know next to nothing about the process of the limitations of map making, and have to drag another map in that is completely irrelevant.

What problem can be with pathing ? Now in map its open road where you can drive easy to fuels, WP. Say , that green covers can broke use of ligh vehiles is tupical, coz in you maps we have a lot thing where you can not use at guns, so pls. Play this map before write somthing.

What problem can be with pathing ? Now in map its open road where you can drive easy to fuels, WP. Say , that green covers can broke use of ligh vehiles is tupical, coz in you maps we have a lot thing where you can not use at guns, so pls. Play this map before write somthing.

If you could understand English for half a second, you would understand what I said.

Second I played the ever living fuck out of this map during the 6 month submission period it was in and it was personally revised by me about 6 times or more. I could go back and check my logs and tell you exactly, and link you each notepad document of the feedback from each Sunday after an update happened to this specific map.

Now listen closely, as this is the last time I'm going to explain this to you.

Green cover, in all instances in the game block light pathing UNLESS it is a texture bases spline that provides a cover bonus based on where a specific texture is, much like roads or ditches, but far less used.

So that means, all pathing around the roads would be come narrow for 1 (causing light vehicles to do 360's, stop THEN turn, all the things you love), and for 2, all green cover is higher than the medium cover variant. By higher I mean it naturally sits higher in the z axis and therefore blocks shots like nobodies business due to the poor projectile finding in the game.

So stop trying to act like you know literally anything about how the objects or the mechanics of the worldbuilder work, let alone the limitations that you have to take into account to change something to suit it to the crying horde that has no idea what they are actually even looking for, outside making it "less trash".

Its almost like you have never played the game before OR you know nothing of the interaction of objects in this game, let alone the layering of cover textures, or the priority given in how its calculated. It might even be all of it together.

This is the last time I'm going to acknowledge you, as this exact thing has been explained MULTIPLE times, to you, and you have almost less understanding from the last time.

...Uh, he was trying to say that he doesn't think some pathing blockers on a massively empty road would be problematic.

I mean, I have to say, a few half-destroyed roadblocks probably wouldn't hurt the map.

(And why can't these rants go to PM...?)

...Uh, he was trying to say that he doesn't think some pathing blockers on a massively empty road would be problematic.

I mean, I have to say, a few half-destroyed roadblocks probably wouldn't hurt the map.

(And why can't these rants go to PM...?)

The more heavy / medium crush by a road texture, that increase movement speed of vehicles, causes them to not stop and turn on a dime, therefore, they will often "collide" with anything around these when moving near them 1-5 meters. And get stuck. Stop and turn, stop and turn, stop and turn, got and test it with a 222 if you don't believe me. So moving from one point of contention (VP) to another horizontally along the roads, will lead to pathing issues for lights. It will also segment the map causing "lanes" and getting rid of the open field of battle that he wants. As it would need to be mimicked 4 times at least for the balance of the map to stay the same.

So basically if any thing is put there like has been suggested, it will fuck up the entire flow of the map. And it isn't a rant. It was a clear cut and concise explanation of how things work. If that bluntness is a "rant", I don't know what to tell you.

bia_road2_crack

As you can see above, any attempt at layering a ditch spline OVER the road spline, it won't take priority.

You have to cheat and use a crater splat and layer it accordingly. If you simply alpha blend it out however, it removes the cover bonus from teh splat entirely, so you can blend it down to about 50% before it loses its cover properties.

However you can use this trick, to employ crosses, you can decorate with whatever items you please, but as I have repeatedly suggested, do not use heavy cover if you don't want pathing issues.

I provided the blueprint to show you the textures that are in use here to give you an idea to work with.

Keep in mind that the road texture was Alpha blended in the colorzation mode, which may take some time time to line up with where you want your crossing, this way you don't have to fake multiple roads and you can blend it easier, also by not having multiple roads along the intended path, vehicles won't "hiccup" when hitting the cross section. The hiccup would be them trying to quickly move to another section of the road to maintain the fastest move speed, which may or may not be ideal depending on your intention.

The way done above though will provide the smoothest most consistent result.

Edit*

As a side note you could do the multiple roads if you want a more "squared off" approach, then use the ditches in the space you removed, and then hide them with layering, but that is up to you.

If you could understand English for half a second, you would understand what I said.

Second I played the ever living fuck out of this map during the 6 month submission period it was in and it was personally revised by me about 6 times or more. I could go back and check my logs and tell you exactly, and link you each notepad document of the feedback from each Sunday after an update happened to this specific map.

Now listen closely, as this is the last time I'm going to explain this to you.

Green cover, in all instances in the game block light pathing UNLESS it is a texture bases spline that provides a cover bonus based on where a specific texture is, much like roads or ditches, but far less used.

So that means, all pathing around the roads would be come narrow for 1 (causing light vehicles to do 360's, stop THEN turn, all the things you love), and for 2, all green cover is higher than the medium cover variant. By higher I mean it naturally sits higher in the z axis and therefore blocks shots like nobodies business due to the poor projectile finding in the game.

So stop trying to act like you know , let alone the limitations that you have to take into account to change something to suit it to the crying horde that has no idea what they are actually even looking for, outside making it "less trash".

Its almost like you have never played the game before OR you know nothing of the interaction of objects in this game, let alone the layering of cover textures, or the priority given in how its calculated. It might even be all of it together.

This is the last time I'm going to acknowledge you, as this exact thing has been explained MULTIPLE times, to you, and you have almost less understanding from the last time.

Do you see that road ? Road and space near it are very width, just look at anothers roads in maps and this road and you will see a big different. So there will be space to use light vihicles.
I didnt say taht i know somthing about how make maps, but i play maps and i know where you rush light vehiles where not, so pls. I dont say that its must be green wall, but some green cover maybe can help, like another things.
To be honest you are lier, coz its first time where you try somthing explaine, so pls.

Do you see that road ? Road and space near it are very width, just look at anothers roads in maps and this road and you will see a big different. So there will be space to use light vihicles.
I didnt say taht i know somthing about how make maps, but i play maps and i know where you rush light vehiles where not, so pls. I dont say that its must be green wall, but some green cover maybe can help, like another things.
To be honest you are lier, coz its first time where you try somthing explaine, so pls.

Re-read what I said, I said ALL green cover, also take a gander through my posts, this has been explained... 4-5 times now.

...

Thanks a lot, Tric! Will definitely try this out.

Re-read what I said, I said ALL green cover, also take a gander through my posts, this has been explained... 4-5 times now.

Show me you post where you explaine to me early ?

Ok guys, here is the result. Now we have three passages, decorated with diverse mud and rubble splats, as Tric recommend before. They provide light cover and even slow down vehicles a little bit, so you wan´t be able to rush from one end of the map to the other anymore. I added some new craters and a few bushes too.

Visually I think it looks great. Although I wonder how the passages would function as open cover... that's a ton of yellow cover spliced on over red cover.

The terrain doesn't quite look like yellow cover. Although I don't know if there are equivalent splats that don't make yellow cover.

But visually it looks great.