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No Tech Call-in Tanks

9 Aug 2016, 13:03 PM
#21
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Those call-ins nerfed enough.....

Relic was nerfing each of them last 2 years without break.
9 Aug 2016, 13:35 PM
#22
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1905 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Aug 2016, 12:31 PMEsxile


Call-in could use some unlock requirement like:

Soviet
IS-2 all buildings + reduced fuel price


I would not build all buildings for the sake of this piece of shit.
Now IS-2 is very bad.
Playing against KT I wonder:
- 88-mm anti-tank gun wipe infantry better than the 122-mm gun-howitzer.
- Better antitank capabilities
- Better armor
- Unnecessary commander

spend 230 fuel at IS-2? better to build two SU-85
9 Aug 2016, 13:58 PM
#23
avatar of assbag
Donator 22

Posts: 83

I don't think late game heavy tanks and specialist tank call-ins are a problem. Mid game multipurpose mediums should reguire teching as most of them do by now only soviet sherman and KV-1 are left. Also problem with some of the call-ins are the doctines as a whole. Armour company for example gives u M10s for AT and dozers AI which I don't like. Same with ostheer mechanized pumas and command tank.
9 Aug 2016, 14:21 PM
#24
avatar of Hasnotalent

Posts: 11

I think in general that the higher ranking players will probably agree with you Tightrope and the mid level players are likely to disagree, so your results will probably be skewed based on the populations of those two groups.

Regardless, We've all had it happen where we've been absolutely annihilating someone just for the magic command point clock to tick over and all of a sudden it completely turns around from a call-in even though they've had no resources the entire game. It's just another comeback mechanic, and most comeback mechanics are dumb. As far as I know, COH2 is the only RTS game that is designed in a way where you could have basically won just for it to completely turn around with little chance at counter play.

That being said though, because the factions are designed around being strong at different stages of the match (dumb) instead of having units be competitive at all points during the game, removing the ability to call in something life-saving I think will really put a hamper upon OST. It's pretty standard for OST to be in a bad way only to comeback later and I think tying teching to call-ins could possibly remove that chance.

The issue is more complicated I think than just tying teching to call-ins and calling it a day. The real problem lays with designing factions to be the most effective at certain stages in the game, and I don't think you can tie call-ins and tech without addressing that first.
9 Aug 2016, 17:22 PM
#25
avatar of IamCat

Posts: 84

I kind of agree assuming this meta gives the player a way to comeback even when I dominated the game by denying him the resource to pull out his medium tanks.

But I don't think that call-ins are of the same use to all or that they are equal.

Limit call-in with teching? Ok.
But only up to tier 3 for Sov/Ost and tier 4 for USF.

It would be unfair to lock up call-ins on the last tier for all the factions, it would make the strategy a bit shallow and would limit your build potential in many ways.

Having a way to scarify your tiers, in order to build only one tank is also a choice, if I don't build tech 4 as soviet I'm not getting a tank destroyer or a katyusha, as ostheer I'm not building panzerwerfer and panther, I think it's simple said like this and call-in meta also represents a mechanic or a way to play that fits perfectly with the game.

So yeah, call-ins should also be meant to replace the last tier of these two factions.

So force Ostheer to build Mechanized Kompanie, soviets need Tankoviy command and USF the battalion caommand.

Even if it is Tiger or IS2.
Techless call-in isn't present in OKW and British.

I'm not sure USF should be forced to though, there is only one real call-in commander, and Pershing is already hard enough to pull out.
9 Aug 2016, 17:42 PM
#26
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

All call in tank except heavy tank should be tied to tech :
usf
M10 at tier 3
Bulldozers at tier 4 with buff to performance
Calliope at tier 4

Ost
Stug e tier 2
Commander p4 after battle fase 2 on HQ

Soviet
Kv8 on tier 4 with price reduction
Lead lease Sherman on tier 4 with price reduction (or at tier 3 with same price but with 10 cp)
Kv1 on tier 4 with big buff

Okw
Ost wind on tier 4 or 3 or after first truck(or after first truck with cp)
Commander panther on tier 4 with price reduction

Brits
.......
Valentine on tier 3 with performance buff(or tier2 with cp)

If I missed anything say it
9 Aug 2016, 18:36 PM
#28
avatar of Muad'Dib

Posts: 367

While I don't think call ins are a serious problem right now (or at least much less so than they used to be), nothing would be lost and a lot potentially improved if they were tied to tech.

+1 to the idea.
9 Aug 2016, 18:41 PM
#29
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474






I really like how your post doesn't smell axis bias, and doesn't sound in any world that you got assblasted by soviet players.
sorry what ?
9 Aug 2016, 18:46 PM
#30
avatar of Longshot_Cobra

Posts: 143

sorry what ?



Dude, you're already known for being an ostheer fanboy, but like wtf?
Every soviet tank (even the KV8) locked behind tier 4?
KV1 behind tier 4?

Buff or not (they don't need a buff) it's simply not worth it.


Ost Stug on tier 2?
COMMAND PANZER IV, locked only behind BATTLE PHASE 2.


It's hilarious that amount of fanboy bias.

I see many people complaining about Lend Lease shermans, I mean play them at least and look for yourself if it's that easy to survive until you get a Sherman.

I mean as easy as getting your stug/command P4 out.

Ostheer is literally call-in the faction right now.
9 Aug 2016, 19:19 PM
#31
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474




Dude, you're already known for being an ostheer fanboy, but like wtf?
Every soviet tank (even the KV8) locked behind tier 4?
KV1 behind tier 4?

Buff or not (they don't need a buff) it's simply not worth it.


Ost Stug on tier 2?
COMMAND PANZER IV, locked only behind BATTLE PHASE 2.


It's hilarious that amount of fanboy bias.

I see many people complaining about Lend Lease shermans, I mean play them at least and look for yourself if it's that easy to survive until you get a Sherman.

I mean as easy as getting your stug/command P4 out.

Ostheer is literally call-in the faction right now.
im ost fan boy what ?
I play right now full Soviet after the changes
Buff means buff kv1 is really good with a pair of su85 a buff would be more hp(1040) and less cost (120 fu)
And kv8 at tier 4 is because it's not only in the Is2 doctrine and a price reduction would be good especially with dat flamethrower
Stug e on tier 2 is the only option cause in tier 2 would need to cost 50 fuel cause there is already stug g at 90 fu
Commander p4 is at battle fase 2 (so tier 3 ) but there is no need to build the production building
And just for the record you were one of those people who made threads about the usf mortar being fine soo I don't think I need to talk more
Btw I play lend and lease and yes you can wait for Sherman pretty easy with tier 2
9 Aug 2016, 19:32 PM
#32
avatar of Longshot_Cobra

Posts: 143

dat flamethrower as you say has been nerfed 3 times already, right now it's barely good, it's in between decent and shit, it hardly does any fast damage, no effective AOE and only good because it can take some damage before dying.
Unless that's what you meant when you said price reduction and not that locking it behind tier 4 = price reduced.

What if the shock doctrine is good because it has these 2 call-ins? If you get beat by a soviet who call-in both these tanks I think you're pretty much deserving it.
Therefor locking up these tanks behind tier 4 is actually going to force you to make a choice and you won't ever have to chose between these 2 tanks.

Besides IS2 right now, like somebody said above, it's plain shit.

The problem with command P4 is what's the point in building tier 3 if you want this tank?

Same goes for many other call-ins.
What is also the point in reducing the cost if you need to tech? Wasn't the point not to allow to get tanks with easy cost?


I don't really understand tightrope myself, it pretty much feels like he is mad that some players won't let go in mid-late game and can just win with call-ins.

9 Aug 2016, 19:36 PM
#33
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

dat flamethrower as you say has been nerfed 3 times already, right now it's barely good, it's in between decent and shit, it hardly does any fast damage, no effective AOE and only good because it can take some damage before dying.
Unless that's what you meant when you said price reduction and not that locking it behind tier 4 = price reduced.

What if the shock doctrine is good because it has these 2 call-ins? If you get beat by a soviet who call-in both these tanks I think you're pretty much deserving it.
Therefor locking up these tanks behind tier 4 is actually going to force you to make a choice and you won't ever have to chose between these 2 tanks.

Besides IS2 right now, like somebody said above, it's plain shit.

The problem with command P4 is what's the point in building tier 3 if you want this tank?

Same goes for many other call-ins.
What is also the point in reducing the cost if you need to tech? Wasn't the point not to allow to get tanks with easy cost?


I don't really understand tightrope myself, it pretty much feels like he is mad that some players won't let go in mid-late game and can just win with call-ins.

kv8 its the best flamethrower after crocodile (single)
9 Aug 2016, 19:46 PM
#34
avatar of Longshot_Cobra

Posts: 143

Yes, but it's not as good as it was, so I don't think it's op or as good a a tier 4 tank.

Also the flame halftrack is the best flamethrower, not the kv8
9 Aug 2016, 19:56 PM
#35
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Yes, but it's not as good as it was, so I don't think it's op or as good a a tier 4 tank.

Also the flame halftrack is the best flamethrower, not the kv8

Wrong is croc>both flamethrower of HT >kv8>flamethrower HT>hetzer>wasp
Get your fact straight and kv8 is 10 time more durable than HT
Btw point out how I'm a fanboy especially ost as I don't play them very much this patch
9 Aug 2016, 20:06 PM
#36
avatar of Longshot_Cobra

Posts: 143


Wrong is croc>both flamethrower of HT >kv8>flamethrower HT>hetzer>wasp
Get your fact straight and kv8 is 10 time more durable than HT
Btw point out how I'm a fanboy especially ost as I don't play them very much this patch



More durable how? It's all relative.
Stats show some thing, the game itself show another.
KV tanks are made for durability.

HT, are fast, durable enough, and can take up to three shots from a T34 before dying.
That's really something don't you think? For a scout car?

The HT flamethrower is a double flamethrower and thus does more damage than any flamethrower in the game.


It serves its purpose as an anti-mg or anti-inf purpose.
The KV8 doesn't do as much AOE as before.
9 Aug 2016, 20:08 PM
#37
avatar of Longshot_Cobra

Posts: 143



More durable how? It's all relative.
Stats show some thing, the game itself show another.
KV tanks are made for durability, but how much shots does it take for a P4 to take it down 4 maybe 5?.

HT, are fast, durable enough, and can take up to three shots from a T34 before dying.
That's really something don't you think? For a scout car?

The HT flamethrower is a double flamethrower and thus does more damage than any flamethrower in the game.


It serves its purpose as an anti-mg or anti-inf purpose.
The KV8 doesn't do as much AOE as before.
9 Aug 2016, 20:12 PM
#38
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474




More durable how? It's all relative.
Stats show some thing, the game itself show another.
KV tanks are made for durability.

HT, are fast, durable enough, and can take up to three shots from a T34 before dying.
That's really something don't you think? For a scout car?

The HT flamethrower is a double flamethrower and thus does more damage than any flamethrower in the game.


It serves its purpose as an anti-mg or anti-inf purpose.
The KV8 doesn't do as much AOE as before.

Kv8 as more dot and doesn't cost 120 munition
And can easily kill all at gun
9 Aug 2016, 20:30 PM
#39
avatar of Longshot_Cobra

Posts: 143


Kv8 as more dot and doesn't cost 120 munition
And can easily kill all at gun



See, just when you said that you're not and ostheer fanboy.

Yes it doesn't cost 120 munition, it costs 380mp/145 fuel and deals less DPS.
HT can kill an AT gun just as easy and can flank it faster.
not bad?

9 Aug 2016, 20:34 PM
#40
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474




See, just when you said that you're not and ostheer fanboy.

Yes it doesn't cost 120 munition, it costs 380mp/145 fuel and deals less DPS.
HT can kill an AT gun just as easy and can flank it faster.
not bad?

omg the kv8 can kill at gun from the front and I already said that has more dot stop being biased in not nerfing it I'm putting on tier 4 and reducing the price
Like the ez 8 and t34/85
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