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russian armor

Too much artillery?

13 Jul 2016, 16:20 PM
#21
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The access and timing of powerful SMGs and artillery in CoH2 create a much more squad wipey scenario than its predecessor.

See, I had thought lessons had been learned with the 120mm. Remember all that? Such simpler times.
14 Jul 2016, 08:15 AM
#22
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

I think the arty fest nature of teams games is in part a result of most of the maps being poorly designed. When the maps are so choke pointed and narrow, it's obvious going to end up in a campy arty fest. More wider, open maps would certainly help.


+1
14 Jul 2016, 09:49 AM
#23
avatar of Multihog

Posts: 83

Yep, that's what it is.

At least in 2v2, everyone just seems to be camping and spamming indirect. Then it's a matter of which side gets more lucky mortar/arty wipes. Fun game, indeed.

I played a few games today after a long break, and EVERY. SINGLE. GAME was a campfest with indirect spam. Back and forth.

My idea of a great RTS isn't one where the indirect fire seems to have equal to superior impact in the game. All of which is RNG and not skill based.
14 Jul 2016, 10:23 AM
#24
avatar of rein001

Posts: 87

i dnt know man you can 1 shot artyy with soviet arty, and can flank it with tanks also u can make it both side in axis and allies, dnt see the problem
14 Jul 2016, 11:42 AM
#25
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

game became an arty fest when the brits where introduced
14 Jul 2016, 11:45 AM
#26
avatar of Multihog

Posts: 83

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2016, 10:23 AMrein001
i dnt know man you can 1 shot artyy with soviet arty, and can flank it with tanks also u can make it both side in axis and allies, dnt see the problem

So you can counter arty with arty? Then what?

Do you realize that this is not an "X faction OP!!1" issue? It's just people being fed up with the arty spam gameplay.
14 Jul 2016, 11:51 AM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17900 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2016, 11:42 AMAlphrum
game became an arty fest when the brits where introduced

Outside of stationary mortar, brits have the most limited arty options.

Just saying.
14 Jul 2016, 12:17 PM
#28
avatar of SUCKmyCLOCK

Posts: 207

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jul 2016, 11:51 AMKatitof

Outside of stationary mortar, brits have the most limited arty options.

Just saying.


Ummmmm except with cancer emplacement it forces axis players to counter using Leig/105mm/Stuka etc, so yes he is correct

Just saying...................
14 Jul 2016, 12:28 PM
#29
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

2on2 and above are quite artillery spamfest friendly. I wonder if the old days of spamming heavies weren't any better..
14 Jul 2016, 12:35 PM
#30
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Ummmmm except with cancer emplacement it forces axis players to counter using Leig/105mm/Stuka etc, so yes he is correct

Just saying...................


And what's the problem with going for A to counter B?

If enemy has Jadgtiger I must go for mss mediums.

If enemy is blobbing really hard, I should get 2 HMGs.

If enemy makes M3/Bren/222, I make AT Gun.

Etc...
14 Jul 2016, 12:54 PM
#31
avatar of Lucas Troy

Posts: 508

The problem is advanced emplacement is pretty popular because it's annoying to deal with, so 2v2 is very often now an artillery fest, at least for me. Maybe for higher ranked players it's not an issue.

I know it has counters but it's like when Jagdtiger was a very obvious choice for every game, so every game turned into "OKW player builds JT, allied players build ISU to counter JT."
14 Jul 2016, 12:56 PM
#32
avatar of SUCKmyCLOCK

Posts: 207



And what's the problem with going for A to counter B?

If enemy has Jadgtiger I must go for mss mediums.

If enemy is blobbing really hard, I should get 2 HMGs.

If enemy makes M3/Bren/222, I make AT Gun.

Etc...


No problem whatsoever, not sure what you are getting at? You appear to be totally off topic trying to get a reaction?

All I pointed out was in relation to the Brits you will see axis players forced to go for some form of arty to counter emplacements. Hence why there an increase of artillery usage since there introduction. Cause and effect.

You seem to be confused as to what this particular thread is about, have a look at the tread title again..............
14 Jul 2016, 13:15 PM
#33
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



No problem whatsoever, not sure what you are getting at? You appear to be totally off topic trying to get a reaction?

All I pointed out was in relation to the Brits you will see axis players forced to go for some form of arty to counter emplacements. Hence why there an increase of artillery usage since there introduction. Cause and effect.

You seem to be confused as to what this particular thread is about, have a look at the tread title again..............


Somehow I don't see more Stukas, nor ISGs than before Brits.

Even opposite. Time of arty spam was at it's finest when ISGs had suppression.

ISGs spam -> Forced to get ML-20 or Priest or Katy etc etc.

Mortar Pit is not even close to old ISG in terms of increasing arty on the field.
14 Jul 2016, 13:19 PM
#34
avatar of SUCKmyCLOCK

Posts: 207



Somehow I don't see more Stukas, nor ISGs than before Brits.

Even opposite. Time of arty spam was at it's finest when ISGs had suppression.


So you are of the opinion that axis players would NOT have increased there use of arty in order to counter British emplacements, be it leig, 105mm, mortars, stukas, flame HTs etc...........

In fact according to yourself these has been a DECREASE in axis arty usage. :huhsign:

Ok then, seems legit..............
14 Jul 2016, 13:23 PM
#35
avatar of Superhet

Posts: 132



And what's the problem with going for A to counter B?

If enemy has Jadgtiger I must go for mss mediums.

If enemy is blobbing really hard, I should get 2 HMGs.

If enemy makes M3/Bren/222, I make AT Gun.

Etc...


And it's not even necessary to counter emplacements only with late game artillery. But it seems no matter how many posts are made listing various kinds of direct and indirect counters, it doesn't matter. To demonstrate that I'll do it again:

#1 - Use at least double mortars/leigs. They can destroy emplacements quickly and force them to be braced so they become ineffective and destructible without danger, while being very good against the bolt action rifles and machine guns of UKF too. They will wipe repairing sappers. Emplacements can't do anything to them if you keep a reinforce HT (PS: just making a flame halftrack will force him to go AEC instead of bofors, AND you can take out the AEC) at your mortars or a FRP not far from your leigs.

#2 - If you are Ost, make gren > sniper > gren > sniper and insert a mortar wherever if you need to take out a garrison, then select osttruppen/luftwaffe/CAS. If you selected ost, obviously make osts instead of grens. Move all your units as one while your pios cap. Drop fuel, which he can't contest because he has emplacements instead of units. Only get an mg42 if he starts making a bunch of flame engineers. Spend only as much manpower as you need to hold his units back and put the rest into caches, then skip T2 and get tanks which his emplacements are useless against and win the game. Alternatively drop munitions instead, make at least 3 halftracks to put all your units in, get schreks and a minesweeper, then drive into his base and upgrade flammen on 2 HTs & destroy his buildings to win the game, bypassing his emplacements entirely. Or use it to simply get multiple flammen HTs if he made a bofors (which he shouldn't have if you succeeded in your early game), force it to brace and drive in. If he made an AEC, make one flammen and use the munitions drop for schreks instead.

#3 - If you are OKW, make a kubelwagen and send it to cap the map (you'd think there would be no need to say the last part, but after I watched some casted replays...). Send your sturmpios not to cap any point at all, but straight into combat with his infantry section (this usually means sending them to his fuel point). Follow up with volks. Aim to simply tie his units down in combat (so stay behind cover) while your kubel caps the whole map, get an mg34 if he goes flame engineers, then do whatever you want to win the game as he has no vision, no positions and no fuel, and won't be able to put up emplacements in the first place.

#4 - If you are in a team game, fight as normal first so the Brit makes emplacements at his side, then double team the other one. If he makes emplacements at his friend's side then your buddy can hold position at his while you cap all of the Brit's points and send your units to help, now you have most of the map.

#5 - If you are in a team game, get Elefant and/or Jagdtiger. They'll take out both tanks and emplacements, the Elefant doctrine comes with great abilities earlier too and so does the Jagdtiger (example: Pzusilier flares = he will be under more pressure against them with their G43s, he can't hide his emplacement construction, snipers are revealed, and they spot for your leigs).

#6 - If he put his emplacements near buildings, get building spawn units. Force his bofors to brace with double mortars/leigs, which you should have earlier or at the same time as his bofors, and then attack. When he sends in a machine gun, spawn a unit and grenade-wipe it, and then walk over and wipe the other one.

Those are off the top of my head.
14 Jul 2016, 13:24 PM
#36
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



So you are of the opinion that axis players would NOT have increased there use of arty in order to counter British emplacements, be it leig, 105mm, mortars, stukas, flame HTs etc...........

In fact according to yourself these has been a DECREASE in axis arty usage. :huhsign:

Ok then, seems legit..............


No becasue 1-2 mortars were and are common thing, stuka is not best counter agasint pit and 1-2 ISGs is, again, common thing.
The only thing which we see more often is MHT and LeFH but few more MHTs and LeFHs are nowhere near to the point when ISGs had supprresion. So saying that there is too much arty right now, when in past there was much arty of the field is kinda weird.

Yes, decrease. Once upon a time we saw 3-4 ISGs strat. How often do you see 4 ISGs now? (not talking about 3v3 or 4v4, but only 2v2) because I havent seen even once since it has lost suppression.

Unless you want to argue that 4ISGs strat vs 2 ISGs currently is not decrease but increase of arty usage :luvDerp:

Since when flame HT is piece of arty?
14 Jul 2016, 13:34 PM
#37
avatar of SUCKmyCLOCK

Posts: 207



No becasue 1-2 mortars were and are common thing, stuka is not best counter agasint pit and 1-2 ISGs is, again, common thing.
The only thing which we see more often is MHT and LeFH but few more MHTs and LeFHs are nowhere near to the point when ISGs had supprresion. So saying that there is too much arty right now, when in past there was much arty of the field is kinda weird.

Yes, decrease. Once upon a time we saw 3-4 ISGs strat. How often do you see 4 ISGs now? (not talking about 3v3 or 4v4, but only 2v2) because I havent seen even once since it has lost suppression.


Since when flame HT is piece of arty?


*Flame MHT my bad

Not sure why you are talking about ISG issue from like 5 patches ago? Indeed if the OP had not played since that exact time you would actually have a point, however he has so....ya..........try again?

Perhaps reading the OP will help, rather than trying to start an argument.

To recap:

1) OP stated he has come across an increase of arty usage in 2v2s in the last month
2)Another member has mentioned that this has been the case since Brits were implemented (didn't state if they were cause/effect)
3)Trollitof got on his high horse as usual
4)I state the increase of axis arty usage lately (effect)is caused by British emplacement usage, which beyond a doubt there has been.......
5)You go on about counters A to B or something totally unrealated?????
6)Then jump to ISGs from god knows how many patches ago?

Possible 7) Whats next the old Katy damage?

Ill be giving up on you now,

A) You clearly did not read OPs post

B) You are talking about patches that have been put to bed years ago, if the OP had not played since that exact time you would actually have a point, however he has so....ya..........try again?

C) You are simply looking for a forum fight (god only knows why?) quite tragic, I wont be entertaining you any further

14 Jul 2016, 13:45 PM
#38
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Do we see more LeFHs? Yes but it's mainly because of OKW.
Do we see more MHTs? Yes and it's becasue of emplacements.
Do we see more GrW or ISGs? Hell no since I haven't seen more than 2 and 2 ISGs or GrWs are part of normal game strat no matter if you play vs Brits or no.

The only unit we see more ofthen which is linked to Brits, is MHT.

I haven't seen more than 2 GrW or ISGs in ages and I see 2 of them against SU or USF as well as against Brits. Therefore there is no reason to say that they are used more often. Hell, I even see 2 mortars for SU even they don't fight against Brits.

OP stated that the game in 2v2 is about wiping stuff with arty. It may be but it's nowhere near to what we had few months ago.

Sorry but you havent provided any proof for more arty being linked with emplacement.
Only MHT is linked to it without any doubts.

Hell, I was even watching today replay of Spanky vs (don't rememebr name). Spany went for 2 Pits (at least to the moment when I paused), OKW went for Med and guess what. Not a single ISGs was made and even tho, 2 Pits went down.
14 Jul 2016, 13:58 PM
#39
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Mortar pits is a form punishment that Wehrmacht have to take for days of old OKW suppression LeIG spam.
14 Jul 2016, 14:15 PM
#40
avatar of JoeH

Posts: 88

Mortar pits is a form punishment that Wehrmacht have to take for days of old OKW suppression LeIG spam.


What a great argument.

What happened to artillery playing a supporting role?
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