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russian armor

su85 feels somewhat nerfed.

9 May 2016, 15:10 PM
#21
avatar of DaciaJC

Posts: 73

Current SU85 vet2 receives big nerf. The change from 0.7x reload to 1.3x penetration is just a cover. Actually, its dps bonus reduces greatly from 1/0.7=1.43x to 1.3x.

In other word, that's 30% reduction for vet 2 bonus, no less.


DPS doesn't matter for much if shots don't consistently penetrate. So, yes, pre-mod vet SU-85 was amazing against mediums, but lacking against heavy tanks; which meant it served largely the same role as the SU-76, which is far cheaper.
9 May 2016, 15:14 PM
#22
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

Versus medium tanks: SU-76
Versus heavy tanks: SU-85

Where is the problem exactly?
9 May 2016, 15:18 PM
#23
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

nerf su 76 ap round reduce and cost and its fine its still over performance agaist su-85 =P

Hardly. Its sufficient vs meds, but falls behind quickly vs heavies.

New SU-85 on the other hand does the heavy duty job just fine.
9 May 2016, 17:08 PM
#24
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

Current SU85 vet2 receives big nerf. The change from 0.7x reload to 1.3x penetration is just a cover. Actually, its dps bonus reduces greatly from 1/0.7=1.43x to 1.3x.

In other word, that's 30% reduction for vet 2 bonus, no less.

my point exactly bro, i still dont see why ppl like this change its either there not understanding or they are axis fanboys and are just agreeing to agree to make it seem like its a good change but its not. im sure this is a huuge nerf, and its so obvious. they didnt need to change its reload speed at vet2. the base penetraion buff was enough. of a buff and it was all that was needed. not a vet 2 super nerf
9 May 2016, 17:13 PM
#25
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593



DPS doesn't matter for much if shots don't consistently penetrate. So, yes, pre-mod vet SU-85 was amazing against mediums, but lacking against heavy tanks; which meant it served largely the same role as the SU-76, which is far cheaper.

DPS is alot higher vs heavies when its vet2 reload speed is active. when the new penetration vet2 was added, DPS vs heavy tanks fall drastically. its hard to kill heavys now cuz reload is slower... when a tank use nitro or smokes u dont have enought time to get more shots at him. so in all u get less dmg. su85 users are soon going to realize this and they will want to revert this. when i seen this change to su85 i immediately knew it was going to be a nerd. and when i tested it its only better before vet 2 vs heavies
9 May 2016, 17:19 PM
#26
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593


Hardly. Its sufficient vs meds, but falls behind quickly vs heavies.

New SU-85 on the other hand does the heavy duty job just fine.

su85 still needs work vs heavis now that it shoots slower, if it got its vet 2 relaod back there would be no problems at all. vet 2 change was just a throw in there change. if they wanted to make it better vs heavies they wouldnt have changed it. it no longer can chase kill properly or safely. its worse although it pen alot better. but base penetration was all that was needed
9 May 2016, 17:41 PM
#27
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Current SU85 vet2 receives big nerf. The change from 0.7x reload to 1.3x penetration is just a cover. Actually, its dps bonus reduces greatly from 1/0.7=1.43x to 1.3x.

In other word, that's 30% reduction for vet 2 bonus, no less.

Ok mate here my changes deal 1k damage 100 shoot x sec
1 pen
9 May 2016, 17:46 PM
#28
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Versus medium tanks: SU-76
Versus heavy tanks: SU-85

Where is the problem exactly?


+1. Su85 will murder heavy tanks left and right now, what are you complaining about guys.
9 May 2016, 17:50 PM
#29
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2016, 17:46 PMNEVEC


+1. Su85 now will murder heavy tanks left and right, what are you complaining about guys.

they will penetrate more and thats good cuz thats what they wanted. but the vet 2 change makes it worse while vetting up. not hard to understand is it? losing 30% attack speed is crushing to su85, and its base attack speed was lowered to in a way cuz u cant get close to raise dps from attacking fast. might point is. when they changed its base penetraion thats all that was needed in the change with the 10 added f cost. they buffed one thing then nerfed another by a ton. ROF is a big deal in any game
9 May 2016, 18:03 PM
#30
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


they will penetrate more and thats good cuz thats what they wanted. but the vet 2 change makes it worse while vetting up. not hard to understand is it? losing 30% attack speed is crushing to su85, and its base attack speed was lowered to in a way cuz u cant get close to raise dps from attacking fast. might point is. when they changed its base penetraion thats all that was needed in the change with the 10 added f cost. they buffed one thing then nerfed another by a ton. ROF is a big deal in any game

Would you rather shoot 1k shoot dat deal 0 damage or one dat deal damage ?
9 May 2016, 18:15 PM
#31
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

the way i see it peterQ made every tanks vets compete with each others. im lookin at vet system. panthers get +10% armor +20% health vet2!! vet3 they get 30% reload!!...next p4 and brummbar gets vet2 30%armor 10% reload for brum then vet 3 both 30% reload!! stug 30%armor 30%reload.... how is su85 going to compete now after losing its valuable reload i dont understand how many of u think this nerf is ok its not... i remember all old nerfs and buffs and why they were nerfed and buffed this isnt making sense like at all to lose this vet. mirage made good changes but this is definitely not one of them, and for relic to test it shows how much they lack at balancing
9 May 2016, 18:20 PM
#32
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

every tank it looks like gets armor and reload speed as axis and everytank as allies get reload speed and wep rotation...so this is wrong balancing at its best
9 May 2016, 18:21 PM
#33
9 May 2016, 18:46 PM
#34
avatar of Horasu

Posts: 279

To people who say DPS "falls off" at vet 2: Do you guys even bother factoring in the armor of the target? What about the chance for those shots to be misses (because accuracy got buffed too)? Because the "math" you guys do only applies if the SU-85 is shooting a kubelwagen at a theoretical and impossible 100% accuracy.

Ugh. You guys need to not be such armchair theorists.
9 May 2016, 18:59 PM
#35
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2016, 18:46 PMHorasu
To people who say DPS "falls off" at vet 2: Do you guys even bother factoring in the armor of the target? What about the chance for those shots to be misses (because accuracy got buffed too)? Because the "math" you guys do only applies if the SU-85 is shooting a kubelwagen at a theoretical and impossible 100% accuracy.

Ugh. You guys need to not be such armchair theorists.
i think it should have its 30% constant rate of fire back like all the other tanks to make it fair it does lose dps cus 30% haste/ROF > a little % chance to penetrate. the base pen buff was enough penetration
Edit: every other tank gets better by vet2-3 su85 dont anymore
9 May 2016, 20:58 PM
#36
avatar of DaciaJC

Posts: 73


my point exactly bro, i still dont see why ppl like this change its either there not understanding or they are axis fanboys and are just agreeing to agree to make it seem like its a good change but its not. im sure this is a huuge nerf, and its so obvious. they didnt need to change its reload speed at vet2. the base penetraion buff was enough. of a buff and it was all that was needed. not a vet 2 super nerf


Buffing the penetration to 240 while retaining the same vet 2 (and 3) reload speed bonus would make for a hilariously OP SU-85.
9 May 2016, 21:33 PM
#37
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593



Buffing the penetration to 240 while retaining the same vet 2 (and 3) reload speed bonus would make for a hilariously OP SU-85.

look at panthers pen, turret rotation, speed, armor, hp, hull rotation, vet buffs.... same thing could be said of it to.
9 May 2016, 21:53 PM
#38
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

elephant gets 50% reload from vet....it has amazing pen range and dmg tigers get reload from vet.. p4 command tank get 30% reload and 30% armor..puma gets +30% sight, +30% accuracy, -20% reload vet2 +33% damage, +20% rotation speed, +20% speed, +20% ac/de-celeration vet3...stug e gets +30% armour, -10% reload vet2 ,30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +20% speed vet3...brumbar 30% armor 40% reload.....take a look at jagdpanzer crazy buffs from vet 2 and up
9 May 2016, 21:55 PM
#39
avatar of Horasu

Posts: 279

I notice that you completely ignore sensible arguments for the su-85 changes and repeat the same "30% less damage hurr" shill over and over again.
9 May 2016, 21:57 PM
#40
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

but for some reason su85 cant have reload speed back tho.
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